View Poll Results: Elitism

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • As a child, were you taught to strive to be the best you could be (elite)?

    4 100.00%
  • As a child were you taught to be mediocre and poor (antonyms of elite)?

    0 0%
  • Do you believe Donald Trump, by definition of “elite” is not an elite?

    1 25.00%
  • Do you believe Donald Trump by definition of the word “elite”, is an elite?

    1 25.00%
  • Do you want a superior (elite) President run/lead the nation?

    3 75.00%
  • Do you want a poor/second rate President to run/lead the nation?

    0 0%
  • Do you want a superior (elite) military to defend you and your nation?

    2 50.00%
  • Do you want a poor/second rate military to defend you and your nation?

    0 0%
  • When you buy goods and services, do you look for superior quality?

    3 75.00%
  • When you buy goods and services, do you look for poor/second rate quality?

    0 0%
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Thread: "Elite" trying again...

  1. #1
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    "Elite" trying again...

    Because I misunderstood what allowing people "multiple choices" meant and flubbed up how people could select more than one choice in the poll about Elitism, I am going to try to post again, this time allowing people to answer multiple questions, instead of just one.

    I'm still curious to know about those who seem to think elitism is some sort of evil and the reasons Trump got elected as an antithesis to what some feel were elites, ignoring their needs. More importantly, why they believe Trump will be any different and what evidence, but for his crude and rude ways, does anyone think he is neither an elite of the same type others are or that he cares about anyone, but himself?

    I can easily see that Trump, has presented the appearance of someone (at least in this campaign, in spite of his previous positions) who is for things that represent the antithesis of what most of America seems to want (of those who voted and but for gaining the Electoral College vote and in spite of losing the popular vote).

    Taken on the issues, what does Trump represent?

    Immigration - illegal immigration - Most people want immigration reform, not necessarily a wall. Who has obstructed immigration reform?

    Supreme Court - Trump and his supporters want a "conservative" Justice to replace Scalia, perhaps even one that is more "conservative" than even Scalia. How to get there? Obstruct the choice of a sitting President and the people (popular vote) who voted for someone who would not have chosen a "conservative" Justice

    PPACA - Vote it out because private insurance companies, the only thing that republicans would allow the PPACA to pass. Obama first supported single payer. Large cost to prepare for and implement PPACA, even larger cost to repeal and then replace. Who will pay those costs?

    Middle East - who knows. Trump wants to "bomb the sh*t" out of ISIS, but also does not want to involve the U.S. in more wars.

    Russia? Trump wants to pull U.S. support out of NATO while becoming more friendly with Russia (what happens to the Ukraine and other places Russia has designs on?)

    Taxes? Trump wants to build all kinds of things, including a wall. With his own money?

    Muslims - Considering most crime in the U.S. is committed by non-Muslims, when do we start "vetting" Americans or Christians, the largest religious population in the country?

    Wealth gap/jobs - How is Trump going to present incentives for hiring more Americans than cheap foreign labor, at the same time, increase the wages of the lower and middle income classes of this nation? By cutting taxes on the wealthy? Last time that was done, they got wealthier, the lower and middle classes lost jobs and their wages stagnated. Trump is a billionaire, not a member of the "common man/woman" population. How do people propose he relates to them and how do they see his plans, not his words, actually working to help them?

    Lots more, but was the election about elites abandoning the common folk or was it about a divided America, some wanting things like less discrimination against LGBT and people of color, immigration reform that was not about building walls and deporting millions of people, solutions to the cost of education and loans to be able to afford the payback when U.S. corporations are both automating and looking for cheap labor in other nations. Many want to see freedom from religious oppression by those that seem to believe everyone should live by their beliefs, yet they should not have to live according to universal Constitutional equal protection under the law. Many believe this nation is not a religious state, based on one specific religion or any religion, but a state that is populated by people of many different religions and those who do not believe in organized religions or deity like entities.

    "Elites" come in all forms and represent many points of view. I would contend the election was not about all elites not listening to the common man/woman, but the elites that continue to cheat the common man and obstruct other elites that have a track record of trying to doing and trying to do something for the "common man/woman", but are constantly obstructed by the elites that want to stay super wealthy by keeping the common man/woman down. Trump's track record seems to fall into the latter, yet because he has said, not done, that he will improve the situations of the common man (in spite of no track record of doing so) he is now the President Elect, based on a system he consistently called "rigged" and an Electoral College, he once called a disaster.

    What has people shocked is that the contradictions and hypocrisy are so absurdly off the charts and what that says about our nation.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Knot,it is really hard to give you an answer on Trump and what he believes. He said a lot of things during the campaign.

    I am not convinced he will do all the things Republicans in Government want. I do think he will try to shake up the establishment in DC. Simply to prove he can,if for no other reason. I do know he called the Republican Party stupid.

    At this point in time I will wait and see. I do know Trump and Schumer are long time friends. I can not see Trump being friends with McConnell. We already know Ryan is not a favorite.

    The things Trump is talking about doing are Long time Democratic wants. An Infrastructure bill, fixing, not destroying the ACA, cracking down on unfair trade bills.

    As for the elite, that is those sitting in Congress doing nothing at all,pompous person's in Government that lied to the people once too often, the elite media that is nothing but a gossip rabble rouser,Corporate elite. They are doing the same thing now. Spreading fear of every candidate Trump talks to. For most of us the media lost their power long ago.

    I choose to wait and see what Trump does. If he passes bills that help both the worker and country. Takes us out of these useless wars, restores this country I will applaud him. If he does not I will blame him in the worst way.

    I doubt that he cares about guns,abortion and gays, that lies at the heart of far right wingers and Evangelicals.
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  3. #3
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Knot,it is really hard to give you an answer on Trump and what he believes. He said a lot of things during the campaign.

    I am not convinced he will do all the things Republicans in Government want. I do think he will try to shake up the establishment in DC. Simply to prove he can,if for no other reason. I do know he called the Republican Party stupid.

    At this point in time I will wait and see. I do know Trump and Schumer are long time friends. I can not see Trump being friends with McConnell. We already know Ryan is not a favorite.

    The things Trump is talking about doing are Long time Democratic wants. An Infrastructure bill, fixing, not destroying the ACA, cracking down on unfair trade bills.

    As for the elite, that is those sitting in Congress doing nothing at all,pompous person's in Government that lied to the people once too often, the elite media that is nothing but a gossip rabble rouser,Corporate elite. They are doing the same thing now. Spreading fear of every candidate Trump talks to. For most of us the media lost their power long ago.

    I choose to wait and see what Trump does. If he passes bills that help both the worker and country. Takes us out of these useless wars, restores this country I will applaud him. If he does not I will blame him in the worst way.

    I doubt that he cares about guns,abortion and gays, that lies at the heart of far right wingers and Evangelicals.
    Hi MA!

    I believe what disturbs most people who did not vote for Trump, even if it does not seem to disturb those who did vote for him, is that if he does all he has said he would do, thoughtful people and people who have lived long enough, see history repeating itself and not in a good way, but one that could be a disaster for a nation and a world that is actually recovering from many ways, from the Great Recession. Because the recovery has been slow, in large part due to obstructionism and corporations automating manufacturing, firing Americans and exporting their jobs to cheap laborers (Trump included) who have no protections in their nations, but spend their paychecks, however meager, in the economies of their nations, not America. Businesses have also kept wages low and stagnant, in spite of a fair number of corporations making record profits and paying out huge bonuses to their management. To me, if there is an "elite" that Americans are referring to, it is not all first class or wealthy Americans or American corporations, but those, not the government, who are responsible for firing Americans or keeping their wages low and stagnant while skimming record profits off the top to pay themselves obscene salaries and attract more investors, not by treating their labor force better, but by cutting their labor force or keeping wages low and stagnant.

    It's not being elite, as an attitude and demeanor that is characterized by greed and gluttony, a lack of empathy for the humanity that allows one to become super wealthy or the environment that make life possible (including theirs and their loved ones) on the planet.

    I suppose what bother's me is there seems to be an attitude that seems to think being "elite" is something to shy away from, when not all people that are elites and wealthy have attitudes and a demeanor that is anti-social like those who seem to care only about themselves. As I have mentioned, there are plenty of very wealthy people (elites) that pass most of their wealth along to help others, rather than purchase or build monumental residences for themselves and live opulent and luxurious lives. Many of them do not talk about their religious beliefs, if the have them and many respect their spouses rather than talk disgustingly about how they cheat on them and hit on people already married.

    Many people who did not vote for Trump would be pleased as punch to see him NOT do most of what he promised, but what does that mean to the people who appeared to have once again, gone for an elite they thought was going to work for them? It means he was like all those they criticized for not listening to them and it means he was not in their court, but more in the opposite court.

    By Trump's selection of advisers and council, there are legitimate worries that he is going to work on trying to enact all the things he said he was going to do during his campaign. Good for the people who voted for him in the sense they will get what they believed they were voting for, but if it is a disaster for the nation, because such policies lead to grave problems, are those who supported Trump, really getting what they wanted and they will not be the only one's to suffer the consequences, even if they recognize and realize the mistake.

    I have given the benefit of the doubt many many times in my life and more times than not, my doubts have been confirmed. I remain optimistic and perhaps we will weather this as all other things, but I am also always cautious, even when feeling totally optimistic about anything.

    There is always a risk of something going wrong, even when everything is working as you planned. When things are already not going as you planned, there is an added vulnerability to the risks.

    Little about Trump or support for him makes much sense, especially in light of what people rejected in favor of casting a vote for him. That people were affected by a massive campaign of repeated memes about HRC, even when actual evidence of anything criminal was lacking, also demonstrates to me, how vulnerable America is to the same sorts of things that the Nazis used to put Hitler in power in spite of Democracy. That is less about equating Donald Trump to doing the same things Hitler did and more about how, in spite of few things making sense and even so many people of the party he ran under, in spite of his calling the system that elected him "rigged" and the EC a "disaster", Trump is our President Elect. The thought is, how did that happen when so little made sense for it to happen, but for a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of anger, a lot of spite, being the main ingredients, with bigotry to spice, being the answer to what happened and those should not be reasons to put someone in power as the world should know, from past experience.

    Once again, to me use of the word "elite" to describe what people believe was to blame, does not properly describe what the problem was. It seemed less what people are rushing to call "elite", as the actions based on an attitude, of those (elite and none elites) who ignored or worked to obstruct what most Americans want. To me, Democrats and the record shows, that they were not ignoring, but could not get past the obstruction of their opposition to get most of what they wanted to get done. The record also shows the obstructionism.

    I'm not sure why people call the media "elite" when there are all levels of media and if one looks at almost any online content, they will find "clickbait" drawing them to "polls" about trying HRC or supporting a ban on Muslims, the death of someone who has not died or some miracle cure of some total BS story (most of it fake, most of intended to sell advertising by pointing to the number of people that have clicked on the website. I would blame the media (not just "elitist" media, since most media, but public media, are in it for the money and their money comes from advertising and they attract advertisers by pointing to how large their audience is. With the internet and lots of competition to attract advertisers, gimmicks to attract people are used and the old standbys, sensationalism and controversy are at the top for bating people's attraction. The media gave Trump incredible amounts of free press, every time he said something rude, crude and controversial. We can blame the media for constantly baiting us to make money off of us or we can tune them out. They are doing what they are in business for and each has their own formulas for attracting the audiences that they use to make money. Trump, like dictators, knows how to use the media to his advantage, by saying outrageous things.

    While I tune into commercial media of all types, just to try to stay informed as to their formats, I don't visit any media, but publicly funded media on a regular basis. While public media has shows where people discuss topics and allow people to call in and express their thoughts. it is different than commercial media where groups of people seem to be paid (I imagine fairly well) to shout the breeze about politics and express their group bias views without interaction with the audience. Who wouldn't like a job where sitting around with your friends talking politics and being paid for it, was the description? We all have opinions, as we can see here, but they are opinions and without facts and stats from a variety of sources (the variety hopefully making what is reported somewhat valid and reputable), our opinions are just opinions and do not provide anyone a reason to change from their own, Our pride and our own stubbornness also makes us less likely to change our opinions and we simply vote for people that we do not want to back down from our positions.

    What happens when all the Congress men and women converge on Washington with their orders to not give in to anything (not compromise)? Gridlock. Why we are disappointed and blame Congress for that seems strange other than the recognition that in spite of what we want our elected representatives to do, their oath of office is to uphold the Constitution and that means for all people, not just their constituents. Perhaps we have become a selfish, unmoving society that wants everything our way, then do not get anything because of the gridlock and get mad that the people elected, did what we elected them to do, only so did all the other people that were elected to oppose what we wanted our representatives to do. While the notion of not backing down or giving in is great, if doing so gets you nothing of what you want because of gridlock.stalemate, then perhaps looking for people who are good at compromise, might be preferable. Look for people who are good negotiators, but also recognize that getting some or most of what you want may seem preferable to getting nothing of what you want.

    I am just as much to blame as anyone, but who wants to admit they are wrong, at fault or a contributing factor to their own problems? To me, until Americans stop looking for others to blame all the time, as well as look for people who will reach across the political aisle to do something for the nation instead of blocking one another because their constituents elected them to not back down, gridlock will continue.

    The question is, which party will be the first to reach out and when they do, will the other party do the same or continue to reject any and all compromise?
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 19th November 2016 at 11:51 PM.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Kontrary's Avatar
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    I think the choices are false, the choices are rigged...you are given the illusion you have a choice, but you dont get one. The same puppet masters have a lock on both. The populace has to change this and thats a messy endeavor.
    Thanks from MaryAnne

  5. #5
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    I think the choices are false, the choices are rigged...you are given the illusion you have a choice, but you dont get one. The same puppet masters have a lock on both. The populace has to change this and thats a messy endeavor.
    This is what I have been saying,and what most people do not understand.

    I heard one expert say, WDC is dead,they just do not know it.

    Now,whether Trump will follow through is the next question. But it is up to those he made promises to keep his feet to the fire.

    My inbox is full of scare tactics of what some one did or said 40 years ago. They have not learned a thing. If I were reminded of things I said 40 years ago they could crucify me. If I have not changed in 40 years something is wrong. Show me what you did last year.

    I know I am sick to death of every special interest demanding their rights are more importatant than mine. It is long past time for all these silly protests because they did not get their way need to end. They need to get back to work and concentrate on fixing things.

    Understand, I do not include real protests about safe water in those protests. They are right.

    This is your very moderate Democrat friend speaking,Knot! I hope you understand.
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  6. #6
    Established Member Constitutional Sheepdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    Because I misunderstood what allowing people "multiple choices" meant and flubbed up how people could select more than one choice in the poll about Elitism, I am going to try to post again, this time allowing people to answer multiple questions, instead of just one.

    I'm still curious to know about those who seem to think elitism is some sort of evil and the reasons Trump got elected as an antithesis to what some feel were elites, ignoring their needs. More importantly, why they believe Trump will be any different and what evidence, but for his crude and rude ways, does anyone think he is neither an elite of the same type others are or that he cares about anyone, but himself?

    I can easily see that Trump, has presented the appearance of someone (at least in this campaign, in spite of his previous positions) who is for things that represent the antithesis of what most of America seems to want (of those who voted and but for gaining the Electoral College vote and in spite of losing the popular vote).

    Taken on the issues, what does Trump represent?

    Immigration - illegal immigration - Most people want immigration reform, not necessarily a wall. Who has obstructed immigration reform?

    Supreme Court - Trump and his supporters want a "conservative" Justice to replace Scalia, perhaps even one that is more "conservative" than even Scalia. How to get there? Obstruct the choice of a sitting President and the people (popular vote) who voted for someone who would not have chosen a "conservative" Justice

    PPACA - Vote it out because private insurance companies, the only thing that republicans would allow the PPACA to pass. Obama first supported single payer. Large cost to prepare for and implement PPACA, even larger cost to repeal and then replace. Who will pay those costs?

    Middle East - who knows. Trump wants to "bomb the sh*t" out of ISIS, but also does not want to involve the U.S. in more wars.

    Russia? Trump wants to pull U.S. support out of NATO while becoming more friendly with Russia (what happens to the Ukraine and other places Russia has designs on?)

    Taxes? Trump wants to build all kinds of things, including a wall. With his own money?

    Muslims - Considering most crime in the U.S. is committed by non-Muslims, when do we start "vetting" Americans or Christians, the largest religious population in the country?

    Wealth gap/jobs - How is Trump going to present incentives for hiring more Americans than cheap foreign labor, at the same time, increase the wages of the lower and middle income classes of this nation? By cutting taxes on the wealthy? Last time that was done, they got wealthier, the lower and middle classes lost jobs and their wages stagnated. Trump is a billionaire, not a member of the "common man/woman" population. How do people propose he relates to them and how do they see his plans, not his words, actually working to help them?

    Lots more, but was the election about elites abandoning the common folk or was it about a divided America, some wanting things like less discrimination against LGBT and people of color, immigration reform that was not about building walls and deporting millions of people, solutions to the cost of education and loans to be able to afford the payback when U.S. corporations are both automating and looking for cheap labor in other nations. Many want to see freedom from religious oppression by those that seem to believe everyone should live by their beliefs, yet they should not have to live according to universal Constitutional equal protection under the law. Many believe this nation is not a religious state, based on one specific religion or any religion, but a state that is populated by people of many different religions and those who do not believe in organized religions or deity like entities.

    "Elites" come in all forms and represent many points of view. I would contend the election was not about all elites not listening to the common man/woman, but the elites that continue to cheat the common man and obstruct other elites that have a track record of trying to doing and trying to do something for the "common man/woman", but are constantly obstructed by the elites that want to stay super wealthy by keeping the common man/woman down. Trump's track record seems to fall into the latter, yet because he has said, not done, that he will improve the situations of the common man (in spite of no track record of doing so) he is now the President Elect, based on a system he consistently called "rigged" and an Electoral College, he once called a disaster.

    What has people shocked is that the contradictions and hypocrisy are so absurdly off the charts and what that says about our nation.
    Those who try and defend elitism are at the core of elities

  7. #7
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    What's wrong with being successful? Elite?

    Regards,

    Bourne

  8. #8
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
    What's wrong with being successful? Elite?

    Regards,

    Bourne
    Being successful is not being elite. Being successful means you strive long and hard to be your best.

    Elite is a state of mind where you think you know what is best for others. Above it all, that is what Government has become.
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  9. #9
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontrary View Post
    I think the choices are false, the choices are rigged...you are given the illusion you have a choice, but you dont get one. The same puppet masters have a lock on both. The populace has to change this and thats a messy endeavor.
    Yes, Donald Trump was elected by the system he called "rigged" the entire time and a function of that system, the Electoral College, that he called a "disaster", before it made him President Elect.

    You are welcome to create your own poll. What some people in this world do not seem to get, when they whine about and complain about what other people do, is that they are free to do better and support what they think they are being cheated out of.

    America only became a nation because enough Americans believed in the rebellion which became a revolution, only because of the success of the rebellion. There is no revolution if people given an opportunity to join in, stay at home or kid themselves that there is a movement, that in reality, does not exist.

    Some in this nation have joined Militia, believing a nation where people have the right to submit a vote for what they want, the government has been usurped. Now the popular trend is that the "elites" aren't listening to the people. ???????? Who voted for those that aren't listening to them and continues to vote for the same? Who stayed at home and let others choose for them?

    The only revolution that has to occur in this nation IMHO is a return to people engaging their brains instead of their selfishness and belief that all their problems are someone else's, not their own, fault.

    Want third parties? Go out and form one, finance it and see if you have enough support to be a viable contender.

    Trump "won" by suggesting the system was rigged, challenging people to prove it wasn't. He also won because he portrayed himself the underdog and victim of people picking on him, when in fact, he is more like the fox who convinced people with faulty eyeglasses that he was the one who should get the job of overseeing the hen house.

    The problem is not rigged systems, the problem is lack of thinking, denial and delusion about ourselves and everyone thinking they are "correct" and everyone else is wrong, leading to gridlock which feeds the fires of frustration, anger and discontent.

    What's wrong is illustrated in the following.



    Our pride and lack of introspection and humility won't allow us to see how we may be contributing to our own problems so that we might stop doing so.

  10. #10
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    This is what I have been saying,and what most people do not understand.

    I heard one expert say, WDC is dead,they just do not know it.

    Now,whether Trump will follow through is the next question. But it is up to those he made promises to keep his feet to the fire.

    My inbox is full of scare tactics of what some one did or said 40 years ago. They have not learned a thing. If I were reminded of things I said 40 years ago they could crucify me. If I have not changed in 40 years something is wrong. Show me what you did last year.

    I know I am sick to death of every special interest demanding their rights are more importatant than mine. It is long past time for all these silly protests because they did not get their way need to end. They need to get back to work and concentrate on fixing things.

    Understand, I do not include real protests about safe water in those protests. They are right.

    This is your very moderate Democrat friend speaking,Knot! I hope you understand.
    You surprise me MaryAnne, as it was not long ago you were saying the same things I was, not passing blame and seemingly ignoring your own special interests, as you appear to be now. We all have special interests and we all want them to come first, thus the gridlock. They want their "special interests" to come first, as you suggested, you want yours to come first. From their perspective and your "logic", why wouldn't they be sick to death, as you are, that you want your special interests to come before theirs?

    Who sends people to WDC based on what system and who pays to influence the people that are sent to WDC to FURTHER influence their interests? Who has a better system than everyone having a choice in who will govern them? What is it people prefer to what is in place now? When people vote for a candidate, are they voting because that candidate best represents their special interests or are they electing people that represent the interests of America? People belong to political parties, why? Because those parties represent special interests the other parties do not? What's in the water that we are not thinking of these sorts of things as we pass blame on something WE are responsible for, as if we are not responsible for it?

    Why is it we refuse to see our role in the problem, even as we blame everyone else?

    What we need is more, introspection, more compromise, more consideration of something besides our own special interests at war with someone else's and thoughtfulness that includes not only how others get in our way, but how we get in the way of others, (multi-directional thinking) to move forward, instead of the gridlock we contribute to, then whine about.

    The problem I see is that everyone thinks they are right (correct) and that their interests should come first and their everyone else's, except theirs, should take a back seat. To me, it comes from the dominance of a spoiled and selfish society that has lost site of things like ethics of reciprocity (The Golden Rule) or want everyone else, except themselves, to be considerate of others. It's not new to history and has happened before, sometimes bringing down great empires because no one wants to compromise. In other cases, change comes when people see how they are causing their own problems (like substance abusers that do the same) and seek solutions. The nations that were once great empires spanning much of the globe still survive today because they recognized a need to change after fighting and losing battles against their domination. Great Britain survives today because it has made some changes and continues to, some of them not so good changes they then adjust and readjust for, some, changes for the better, but they have in many ways been more progressive than we have, but perhaps for Brexit, which will tell a story to them, just as the election of Donald Trump will tell a story to us, as to whether it was a good decision or bad.

    Hillary Clinton was in Congress for 8 years. Bernie Sanders for 25. If WDC is dead because of people too long there, then why was Bernie Sanders the "revolutionary" candidate, until he told his supporters they should suport HRC?

    Do we really know what we want and how to get there or are we just stabbing in the dark? I think we all need to sit down and think and spent some time in introspection, thinking of ourselves as "the other people" we are, to other people, just as they are, to us and find some common goals and compromises to get them achieved. Right now, it seems we're all turning on one another and blaming everyone else for a system that gives us a chance to choose what we get, then when we get it, we complain about what we got and the system that allowed us to choose.

    As I said, this is nothing new in history, Benjamin Rush nailed an ages old problem on the head and worked to present a solution for it by bicameral chambers in Congress. If the people, by their representatives, choose to vote for the influence of money in the system, in many ways, they are voting against the things the founders of this nation were cognizant of as being ruinous to a free society, especially one free of enslavement by the rich.

    This nation just rejected wealth and elitism to vote in one of the most wealthy and elite, by his own bragging, if not by reality. For a lot of thoughtful people, that is the absurdity and the absurdity the root of the greatest concerns this nation may have. There seems to be an overwhelming epidemic of people who desire things that contradict one another, just as in this past election, with people rejecting a candidate because of her speaking fees and net worth, but voted for a billionaire who bought the office of President for himself (instead of other people buying it for him), who was paid 4X what the rejected candidate was paid for her speeches to speak before the real estate elite, just before the real estate market collapsed, providing a means for those who still had money (Trump and friends) to go in and buy foreclosed upon property, to then sell at great profit. In other words, the election of Donald Trump is deemed by his supporters and then some, to be a "revolution" and a vote against the elite, yet the reality is a representative of the uber elite was just elected to represent the "revolution" against the elite. What has many in a tizzy is trying to figure out, how that makes sense, but for how it has worked in the past, to the chagrin of the world then.


    "In order to prove this assertion, I shall premise two propositions, which have never been controverted: First, where there is wealth, there will be power; and, secondly, the rich have always been an over-match for the poor in all contests for power."

    "These truths being admitted, I desire to know what can prevent our single representation being filled, in the course of a few years, with a majority of rich men? Say not, the people will not choose such men to represent them. The influence of wealth at elections is irresistible. It has been seen and felt in Pennsylvania, and I am obliged in justice to my subject to say, that there are poor men among us as prepared to be influenced, as the rich are prepared to influence them. The fault must be laid in both cases upon human nature. The consequence of a majority of rich men getting into the legislature is plain. Their wealth will administer fuel to the love of arbitrary power that is common to all men. The present Assembly have furnished them with precedents for breaking the Constitution. Farewell now to annual elections! Public emergencies will sanctify the most daring measures. The clamours of their constituents will be silenced with offices, bribes or punishments. An aristocracy will be established, and Pennsylvania will be inhabited like most of the countries in Europe, with only two sorts of animals, tyrants and slaves."

    -Benjamin Rush, Observations on the Government of Pennsylvania - 1777

    http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/found.../v1ch12s8.html
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 20th November 2016 at 09:15 AM.

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