View Poll Results: For Gorsuch fans, do you think he is as ideologically driven as Scalia was?

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Thread: Question for Gorsuch fans....

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Do you think he is as ideologically driven as Antonin Scalia was?

    or less so?
    I like the Judge's philosophy that the law should be interpreted based on a strict adherence to the law itself and not any personal beliefs he may have. So if that is the ideology you are referring to - I hope so.

    My only criticisms of Gorsuch is that he should have made his personal views known to the committee.

    I understand his argument that they are irrelevant - and will have no impact on this decisions. And while I hope that is true - I still believe it was incumbent on him to share those views so we can weigh them against decisions he makes past or future.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 11th April 2017 at 04:28 PM.

  2. #32
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    How was his thoroughly rebuffed education decision the right one?
    I don't know that it was. I'd be happy to review it and give you my thoughts on it if you're interested in them, but I haven't claimed the guy is infallible or that I do (or would) agree with every decision he renders/has rendered. I was giving you my take on why I don't find his judicial philosophy/approach indicative of him lacking common sense.
    Thanks from Amelia and pragmatic

  3. #33
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    I don't know that it was. I'd be happy to review it and give you my thoughts on it if you're interested in them, but I haven't claimed the guy is infallible or that I do (or would) agree with every decision he renders/has rendered. I was giving you my take on why I don't find his judicial philosophy/approach indicative of him lacking common sense.

    If he's exercising common sense, then that's very depressing. Common sense that a company can fire someone for choosing not to freeze to death. Common sense that people who do just one token thing above the bare minimum count as following the law for providing education for disabled children.

    Basically you and Gorsuch are making our laws sound like something out of a Dickens novel. And it's giving me a headache to think that our fate is in the hands of such a cold man.

  4. #34
    told you so Amelia's Avatar
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    (Yes, I'm interested in your thoughts.)

  5. #35
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    If he's exercising common sense, then that's very depressing. Common sense that a company can fire someone for choosing not to freeze to death. Common sense that people who do just one token thing above the bare minimum count as following the law for providing education for disabled children.

    Basically you and Gorsuch are making our laws sound like something out of a Dickens novel. And it's giving me a headache to think that our fate is in the hands of such a cold man.
    ((Amelia)) If you didn't know it already, then surely you know it now: All of us lawyer folk are cold-hearted snakes.

    No - in all seriousness, our training emphasizes analytical thinking. Or, if you will, cold-hearted analysis. Sometimes I call it "putting on my lawyer hat," sometimes I call it "invoking my inner Spock."

    The ability to analyze a given scenario "coldly" is critical to what I do and critical to what judges do. Sort of the legal equivalent of what medical professionals do in order to be able to treat patients, perform surgery, etc., without freaking out over the blood and guts and bodily fluids.

    Anyway, I don't expect that will cause you to disagree with the decisions any less. But I am hopeful that, knowing me as well as you do, it might help you understand how someone who's actually quite warm-hearted, and generally possessed of common sense might reach legal conclusions that run counter to those ideals.

    I'll take a look at the education decision tomorrow and return with my take.
    Thanks from Amelia, HCProf and Panzareta

  6. #36
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    ((Amelia)) If you didn't know it already, then surely you know it now: All of us lawyer folk are cold-hearted snakes.

    No - in all seriousness, our training emphasizes analytical thinking. Or, if you will, cold-hearted analysis. Sometimes I call it "putting on my lawyer hat," sometimes I call it "invoking my inner Spock."

    The ability to analyze a given scenario "coldly" is critical to what I do and critical to what judges do. Sort of the legal equivalent of what medical professionals do in order to be able to treat patients, perform surgery, etc., without freaking out over the blood and guts and bodily fluids.

    Anyway, I don't expect that will cause you to disagree with the decisions any less. But I am hopeful that, knowing me as well as you do, it might help you understand how someone who's actually quite warm-hearted, and generally possessed of common sense might reach legal conclusions that run counter to those ideals.

    I'll take a look at the education decision tomorrow and return with my take.

    Kudos to the snake confession.

    We need more of you rascals to finally pony up....
    Thanks from HCProf, bajisima and Wonderer

  7. #37
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    @Amelia - I have the case printed out and will take a look at it soon as time permits. I have some work-work calling for my attention at the moment.
    Thanks from Amelia

  8. #38
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    @Amelia - I have the case printed out and will take a look at it soon as time permits. I have some work-work calling for my attention at the moment.
    Update: Have reviewed the SCOTUS ruling. Am now reviewing Gorsuch's 2008 opinion (which is 27 pages long). May be tomorrow before I can provide a thorough response.

    ETA: Interesting to note - the SCOTUS denied certiorari on the 2008 opinion - meaning they declined to take it up in 2009, and the 2008 opinion still stands. (The recent opinion involved a 2015 10th Circuit case in which Gorsuch did not participate.)
    Last edited by Wonderer; 12th April 2017 at 11:01 AM.
    Thanks from pragmatic and Amelia

  9. #39
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    I believe.....


    Gorsuch, in comparison to Scalia.....will be a DISAPPOINTMENT to the Social Conservatives.


    He's more of a pro-Big Business guy, rather than a "Ban abortion, ban gay marriage" guy....and thus why Trump picked him off of the Heritage Foundation list.

    So while Neil might back a play for letting Dow Chemical dump dioxin in the Chesapeake Bay....or claim that Exxon-Mobil is a "citizen" and thus has a "right" to give a billion dollars to a Presidential candidate...

    I get the feeling he's not goingt to want to overturn Roe or Obergefell.

  10. #40
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    How was his thoroughly rebuffed education decision the right one?
    Alright. Trying to think of the best way to respond to this without writing a total dissertation. There's a TON of background and procedural history here. Additionally, I don't know that I would characterize his decision as "the right one." I'm on the fence on that. However, I can readily understand how and why he reached the decision he did. Furthermore, I don't agree that his decision was "thoroughly rebuffed." Nor do I agree that it demonstrates him lacking common sense or being a heartless dick.

    So....just as I was typing all of this, I got a GINORMOUS case dropped in my lap that's set for trial in < 3 weeks. Going to have to do this piecemeal. Above is an overview. Will come back with specifics as time permits. Sorry to answer like this, but will flesh it out as soon as I can.
    Thanks from Amelia and pragmatic

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