View Poll Results: If Trump preemptively pardons Russiagate suspects.....is that Obstruction of Justice?

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    12 60.00%
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    7 35.00%
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Thread: If Trump preemptively pardons Russiagate suspects.....is that Obstruction of Justice?

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    No idea. Details matter.

    Would be up to a prosecutor to sort through the specifics.
    Wrong......it should be up to a jury of average citizens.
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  2. #22
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Wrong......it should be up to a jury of average citizens.

    Please explain how that works?

    Clarify the "details don't matter" part somewhere in there also.

  3. #23
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronwyn View Post
    Really? Then why did Clinton get away with pardoning Mark Rich?
    Failed first grade math when her answer to "2+2=" was "What about Clinton?".

  4. #24
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Please explain how that works?

    Clarify the "details don't matter" part somewhere in there also.
    A prosecutor just decides if he thinks he can convince 12 citizens that a crime has been committed and that the defendant committed it/them.
    The jury decides what the facts are.

    In this case the jury should be all voters to establish as fact that no politician is above the law.
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  5. #25
    the "good" prag pragmatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    A prosecutor just decides if he thinks he can convince 12 citizens that a crime has been committed and that the defendant committed it/them.
    The jury decides what the facts are.

    In this case the jury should be all voters to establish as fact that no politician is above the law.
    Okay. So the process does start with a prosecutor. And he views the details to see if a law has been broken.

    Sounds like we are on the same page.

    Not sure where your kneejerk "Wrong..." response came from??

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Okay. So the process does start with a prosecutor. And he views the details to see if a law has been broken.

    Sounds like we are on the same page.

    Not sure where your kneejerk "Wrong..." response came from??
    The "Wrong" I posted was in re this statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    Would be up to a prosecutor to sort through the specifics.
    It would be up to the prosecutor to start the process and move it forward in court if he thought he could win.
    The jury is the meaningful entity that sorts through the specifics and decides what is fact.
    May sound like quibbling but it's an important distinction.
    Last edited by Devil505; 19th November 2017 at 09:32 AM.

  7. #27
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Since this is all theoretical...

    Wouldn't Trump pardoning all his co-conspirators automatically compel them to testify in any deposition or actual court case against Trump himself? Because pleading the fifth would be off the table as there'd be no risk of prosecution for incriminating themselves. And if they refused to testify, they could just be jailed for contempt of court. Seems that might make Trump more vulnerable.
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  8. #28
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    Since this is all theoretical...

    Wouldn't Trump pardoning all his co-conspirators automatically compel them to testify in any deposition or actual court case against Trump himself? Because pleading the fifth would be off the table as there'd be no risk of prosecution for incriminating themselves. And if they refused to testify, they could just be jailed for contempt of court. Seems that might make Trump more vulnerable.
    Only if a Republican controlled government would have the will to prosecute them....which is doubtful at best.

    Right now the criminals have all the power in Washington and that's where Trump's arrogance emirates from..
    Last edited by Devil505; 19th November 2017 at 09:43 AM.
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  9. #29
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Remember anyone HE 'PREEMPTIVELY' PARDONS is subject to prosecution as they have 'admitted guilt' to get the pardon. Interesting twist huh?
    They also lose the right to invoke the 5 TH.
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  10. #30
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Remember anyone HE 'PREEMPTIVELY' PARDONS is subject to prosecution as they have 'admitted guilt' to get the pardon. Interesting twist huh?
    Yes, being pardoned would disqualify them from "taking the 5th", and beyond that, the President can't pardon state crimes, and Mueller is absolutely aware of this.
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