View Poll Results: If Trump preemptively pardons Russiagate suspects.....is that Obstruction of Justice?

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    12 60.00%
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Thread: If Trump preemptively pardons Russiagate suspects.....is that Obstruction of Justice?

  1. #51
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    It is a plenary power. It is not obstruction of justice.
    Not if it's used for corrupt purpose...like hiding crimes.
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  2. #52
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    An amendment wouldn't be retroactive you know.

    Once the pardon is issued it is irreversible in any and all circumstances.
    A SCOTUS decision could change that.
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  3. #53
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    More on the subject:

    KELLY MCEVERS, HOST:

    "President Trump recently tweeted an unusual suggestion - all agree the U.S. president has the complete power to pardon. Which raised the question, can the president pardon himself? Legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg went to find that out."

    "NINA TOTENBERG, BYLINE: No president in the history of this country has ever pardoned himself, though President Nixon and perhaps others may have contemplated it. Presidents Clinton and George H.W. Bush were each under investigation by a special prosecutor as their terms drew to a close, but neither chose to pardon himself."

    "President Trump's tweet responded to a Washington Post story reporting that he had discussed with his lawyers whether he could pardon himself. His tweet said, while all agree the U.S. president has complete power to pardon, why think about that when only crime so far is leaks against us? His new communications director, Anthony Scaramucci, appearing on CBS's "Face The Nation," confirmed that the president had discussed the pardon question."

    (SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "FACE THE NATION")

    ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI: "He just doesn't like the fact that he has a two-minute conversation in the Oval Office or in his study and that people are running out and leaking that."

    TOTENBERG: "The president does indeed have broad, but not unlimited, pardoning power. The Constitution gives the president the power to grant pardons, quote, "for offenses against the United States except in cases of impeachment." So he can't pardon himself from impeachment, can't pardon anyone from state charges. And most, but not all, constitutional law experts believe he cannot pardon himself on federal charges either."

    BRIAN KALT: "A self pardon would be politically a disaster. The main check on the pardon power is political accountability."

    TOTENBERG: "Brian Kalt, author of "Constitutional Cliffhangers," says that President Nixon decided against pardoning himself because he feared his reputation would be left in tatters. In the end, Nixon was prepared to keep fighting, but his base in Congress was not."

    KALT: "It was when the Republicans in Congress told Nixon that he had to go that he knew that his time was up."

    TOTENBERG: "But Kalt, who's been writing about presidential pardons since 1996, knows that when Nixon faced impeachment neither Congress nor the electorate was so dug into partisanship as they are today. And he worries that those Republicans willing to defy Trump, if there were to be an impeachment proceeding, could pay a political price. The framers of the Constitution put the presidential pardoning power into the founding document in order to correct unjust prosecutions or convictions, both of which had occurred frequently in England."

    "At the Constitutional Convention there was a proposal to exempt treason from the president's pardoning power, the notion being that if a president conspired with subordinates to commit treason he should not be able to protect himself by pardoning fellow conspirators. But Professor Kalt of Michigan State University notes that the founders rejected the proposal because they said there were and are other remedies."

    KALT: "If he does that, we impeach him and we prosecute him. Now, that last bit - and we prosecute him - is one of my pieces of evidence that the president can't pardon himself."


    https://www.npr.org/2017/07/27/53982...are-its-limits


    The real question might be more about how much the republicans in Congress are willing to continue to go along with Trump's obvious maneuvering to protect himself, where evidence may be overwhelming.

    Trump's ace in the hole throughout his shady career with regard to lawsuits against him may be threats of counter attacks/law suits and they may have worked in many cases, but there are some where the tactic has not worked and where Trump HAS been held accountable, but in most of those cases, money or some sort of "settlement", worked as an alternative to a trial. If sentiment moves against Trump, within the party he ran under, he could find himself without the numbers needed in defense from impeachment charges.

    Does Trump hold all the cards with regard to "punishing" any republicans that defy him or do Republicans hold the cards with regard to defending him from charges of impeachment. Further, in consideration of the consistent poll ratings of both Trump and republicans and Trump LOSING the popular vote by an unprecedented close to three million votes, do American voters hold the cards.

    I'm not sure many people are paying that much attention to what is already happening across the nation with regard to election trends, where they have occurred.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f62edc720ed1

    How much are human beings (republicans) willing to put politics before human values?

  4. #54
    Undercovfefe Agents TennesseeRain's Avatar
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    Trump can pardon whomever he wants whenever he wants. It will not stop this snowball because everything done in the Federal investigation is being mirrored in some states investigating the Trump syndicate, namely Pennsylvania and New York. So, if Trump pulls the plug on Mueller or starts pardoning people in his circle, it will all just be moved to the states where he doesn't have the power to pardon and has no power to shut it down. Wut? Is there anyone here with two brain cells to rub together who doesn't know Jared Kushner is under investigation by the NYDA for his involvement in shady real estate deals, namely the 666 building in Manhattan. That POS is going to prison.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01, Devil505 and Babba

  5. #55
    Veteran Member EnigmaO01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I gotta believe such an obvious and corrupt attempt to hide Trump's felonies by using any procedure to obstruct justice would fail. No court or election would blatantly put a president above the law.
    We are a nation of laws not royalty.

    Blame Gerry Ford's pardon of Nixon for such idiocy!
    Call me cynical but sadly I believe presidents are above the law. If they weren't why can't you force them to testify? And what is the pardon bullshit anyway? And on top of that you can impeach a president but that doesn't mean he has to leave office. It simply means to press charges against.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    I agree, we should let mueller fully hang himself.

  7. #57
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanmcfly View Post
    I agree, we should let mueller fully hang himself.
    "We"... LMAO

    Yes, by all means, us "Canadians" should let Mueller fully hang himself.

    Hilarious.
    Thanks from TennesseeRain, Babba and OldGaffer

  8. #58
    Veteran Member bmanmcfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    "We"... LMAO

    Yes, by all means, us "Canadians" should let Mueller fully hang himself.

    Hilarious.
    Ok, you should... Whatever.

  9. #59
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    And on top of that you can impeach a president but that doesn't mean he has to leave office. It simply means to press charges against.
    Impeachment is a HOR political indictment which is followed by an actual trial in the Senate. A Senate conviction removes a president from office.

    Nixon resigned when faced with the certainty of impeachment and conviction.
    Clinton was impeached in a purely partisan vote in the HOR but vindicated in the Senate.

    As always...Fuck AQ, ISIS and the GOP!
    Last edited by Devil505; 17th December 2017 at 06:23 AM.
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  10. #60
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TennesseeRain View Post
    Trump can pardon whomever he wants whenever he wants. It will not stop this snowball because everything done in the Federal investigation is being mirrored in some states investigating the Trump syndicate, namely Pennsylvania and New York. So, if Trump pulls the plug on Mueller or starts pardoning people in his circle, it will all just be moved to the states where he doesn't have the power to pardon and has no power to shut it down. Wut? Is there anyone here with two brain cells to rub together who doesn't know Jared Kushner is under investigation by the NYDA for his involvement in shady real estate deals, namely the 666 building in Manhattan. That POS is going to prison.
    Exactly. Trump can pardon his pea-pickin' little heart out, it ain't gonna help. The states will be free to continue on their merry way.

    Also, legally, I don't believe Trump pardoning people can be seen as obstruction.
    Last edited by Babba; 17th December 2017 at 06:32 AM. Reason: pea, not pee, lol.

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