View Poll Results: Should a President's pardon power be limited?

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    9 56.25%
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Thread: Should a President's pardon power be limited?

  1. #31
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davocrat View Post
    What is a president's pardon power currently?
    About 45 kilowatts, I think.
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and Davocrat

  2. #32
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Impeachment is the recourse of first resort. We've never yet attempted criminal proceedings against a sitting President, because this is the first time our electorate has had such a powerful brain fart.
    If the corrupt can pardon the corrupt, what acts as a check and balance to corruption? How does impeachment work if those who have the power to impeach include many of the same scoundrels that were pardoned or elected to support the same sorts of corruptions the POTUS pardons?

    The world has seen abuse of power before. One can say the people deserved what they got/get, but shouldn't people learn from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others, to minimize how often they repeat the same mistakes?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933



    As already mentioned, the power has been controversial from day one. In the grand scheme of things, what truly is the power of the President to pardon (after the fact) those convicted of a federal crime? What divine power enshrines the determination of fairness and justice to the President over and above the people and the processes of justice? Of what purpose a system of justice, if one person, in their singular opinion, can simply dismiss the entire process undertaken, with a stroke of their pen?

    I do agree with you, that impeachment is an option, but the process of impeachment is not like the process of a Presidential Pardon and it is not up to one person or even the majority of "the people", but in the hands of honorable, NOT political people in Congress. We have noted how Congress, as of late, republicans with a lower favorable rating than Democrats, appears to be less about what is good for the nation than what is good for their political party.

    Hitler's rise to power and the loss destruction of a democracy by him, once handed power, by the people who handed the power to others and support for him, before people recognized, too late (because he was given the power to eliminate the power of the people to remove him), what his agenda was, should be a lessen for the world about protecting the potential cracks in their republic and its democratic processes. Conceivably, if corrupt people planned to do whatever it took (by whatever corrupt means) to create a trifecta (three branches of government) of power and political (not ethical) "loyalty" to that power, based on people voting party, not ethics, values, morality or "what's right", then how is something like impeachment going to happen?

    How does the majority in all three branches of government and loyalty to politics (meaning looking the other way when something unethical, unjust, etc. for the sake of not undermining the party) not simply pass or abuse laws that perpetuate their power with the continuation of corrupt means to do so?

    I guess what I am saying is how is it that a government that was designed around the idea of checks and balances, then hand a POTUS, the power to essentially have no checks and balances, to this power, if none others?

    Why would a den of thieves who profit from their thievery, want to convict one of their own, of stealing from people outside the den?
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 15th April 2018 at 11:51 AM.
    Thanks from Devil505 and Friday13

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    You are apparently way better than me at precisely knowing what all of Trumps motivations are.
    I have the advantage of much DOJ training and a career investigating criminals and understanding what motivates them.

  4. #34
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    How about we wait to see if "Trump's attorneys prevail"??

    Then we could have an actual topic to discuss...eh?
    I'd rather make sure that we ensure that the founding father's belief that "no man is above the law" is still alive in the United State.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    We have the mechanisms in place to deal with such abuses. Our form of government didn't cause the problem that we now face with a criminal President and an enabling Congress. We voted for this shit. The American electorate is what broke our nation, and only the American electorate can repair the damage.
    We had a criminal President.

  6. #36
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Right now it has nor restrictions.
    Did you say that when Obama was breaking records? More democrat double standards and hypocrisy

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/12/...th-78-pardons/

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...nt-in-history/

  7. #37
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Did you say that when Obama was breaking records? More democrat double standards and hypocrisy

    https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/12/...th-78-pardons/

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...nt-in-history/
    So you agree that prez pardons are bad? (we both know that you think only Dem pardons are bad.)

  8. #38
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    So you agree that prez pardons are bad? (we both know that you think only Dem pardons are bad.)
    I said no such thing. I said you did not complain about Obama who broke records so this is just more of your democrat hypocrisy and Trump hate

  9. #39
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I said no such thing. I said you did not complain about Obama who broke records so this is just more of your democrat hypocrisy and Trump hate
    Do you agree that all president's pardon power should be limited?(watch this)

  10. #40
    Veteran Member ptif219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Do you agree that all president's pardon power should be limited?(watch this)
    As always you avoid my point. You are only bringing this up because you hate Trump

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