View Poll Results: Should Failure to secure your guns properly make you liable to the same penalty?

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  • Yes.

    10 55.56%
  • No

    6 33.33%
  • Maybe...I'll answer in a post

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Thread: Should Failure to secure your guns properly make you liable to the same penalties?

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Should Failure to secure your guns properly make you liable to the same penalties?

    As the actual shooter?

  2. #2
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    I'm not answering this yet because I'm thinking on it. But I think it is a very good question.
    Thanks from Devil505 and boontito

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Moorhuhn Wanted Champion Hollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    As the actual shooter?
    Difficult question.
    If someone steals my car and does a drive-by shooting that kills multiple people should I also be charged with multiple counts of murder?
    Thanks from HadEnough2 and NightSwimmer

  4. #4
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    No. There is no proximate cause between the failure to secure and the shooting. Furthermore, the failure to secure should not itself even be a crime, though I imagine it could be combined with some other act to make a crime.

    What I can imagine, though, is establishing a statutory duty to properly secure guns, such that failure to do so would involve a fine, and possibly therefore grounds for a lawsuit for negligence. But even in such a lawsuit, proximate causation is a problem.

    Of course, in both cases, I am assuming the shooting was done by someone who stole the guns - e.g., burglar breaks in, finds and steals unsecured gun, shoots someone later. A different hypothetical might yield a different answer.

    Note: I would like to follow up on this, but will be gone for 3 days in a few hours, so if I get back and the thread is a zillion pages long, I am unlikely to follow up on it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    As the actual shooter?
    It could be a deterrent for the few shooters who use a family member's weapon. Some might not want that penalty to come to their family member. Not really sure how many that would apply to though.

    The arguable legality of such a law I'll defer to Ian.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
    Difficult question.
    If someone steals my car and does a drive-by shooting that kills multiple people should I also be charged with multiple counts of murder?
    Not in that case but if you don't even try to safely store your guns and have a teen with problems you should be more responsible.

    Case by case issue.
    Thanks from Friday13

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No. There is no proximate cause between the failure to secure and the shooting. Furthermore, the failure to secure should not itself even be a crime, though I imagine it could be combined with some other act to make a crime.

    What I can imagine, though, is establishing a statutory duty to properly secure guns, such that failure to do so would involve a fine, and possibly therefore grounds for a lawsuit for negligence. But even in such a lawsuit, proximate causation is a problem.

    Of course, in both cases, I am assuming the shooting was done by someone who stole the guns - e.g., burglar breaks in, finds and steals unsecured gun, shoots someone later. A different hypothetical might yield a different answer.

    Note: I would like to follow up on this, but will be gone for 3 days in a few hours, so if I get back and the thread is a zillion pages long, I am unlikely to follow up on it.
    I'm thinking of extreme cases where the gun owner does not exercise "Reasonable" efforts to secure his weapon.

    The Parkland shooting leaps to mind where the father gave the gun back to his son after a court took it away.

  8. #8
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Exact same? I don't know. Should it be an enforced part of gun ownership with stiff penalties? Absolutely. Supported that stance for a very long time.
    Thanks from Devil505 and Friday13

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    Exact same? I don't know. Should it be an enforced part of gun ownership with stiff penalties? Absolutely. Supported that stance for a very long time.
    Using the Parkland scenario I would say yes....the same penalty as his shooter son.

    Make an example of the guy to scare others into being responsible or face heavy prison time.
    Thanks from Idiocracat

  10. #10
    Nuisance Factor Yeti 8 Jungle Swing Champion, YetiSports 4 - Albatross Overload Champion, YetiSports7 - Snowboard FreeRide Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion boontito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Using the Parkland scenario I would say yes....the same penalty as his shooter son.

    Make an example of the guy to scare others into being responsible or face heavy prison time.
    I can see the logic in that case. Tough law to write to cover different situations but gun safety should be mandatory to an extent... not just left to those who are "responsible" as a show of good faith.
    Thanks from Devil505, Friday13 and Panzareta

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