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Thread: A question of ethics

  1. #61
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    If you were to assign to the belief of God existing, as an almighty power, presence and conscience.. How could you then at the same time compare him, and what he designs / creates and rules with experiences that some of his made up creations have experienced during the life the "HE gave them ?

    If he's the almighty, he can make up any rule and self-justifying logic as he so pleases. He would n't have to report or justify any thing to anyone but himself anyways.
    Because what you are describing is a God who absolutely does not deserve our respect even, let alone our worship. "Do as I say, not as I do," The God you describe expects us to hold ourselves to a moral, and ethical standard that you are saying the God you are describing does not, and doesn't even pretend to.

    And you can't even use the "If you don't do things his way, he will smite you," threat, as the very diseases, and catastrophes demonstrate that he is going to do that randomly, just for shits, and giggles, anyway. So the threat kind of looses its impact.
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  2. #62
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    I see, so your insinuation is that god must be evil too. Although there is plenty of evidence that proves this it does not necessarily mean that he is evil for creating malaria. It could have been a simple fuck up on his part and he never meant for it kill people. Or it could have been harmless when he created it and evolution either caused it to become toxic, or man has evolved to become more susceptible to it. If he truly were all good why did he have to make everybody die? Or why didn't he make everyone just die in their sleep without pain? I think if he exists he just threw a little life-dust on the planet and sat back to watch the show. He's probably sitting there now saying I'm going to have to work on that dust before pitching some more out on the next planet.
    No. You are looking at this backwards. I am not looking for a justification for "doing evil". I am pointing out the irrationality of worshipping a creator that clearly does not even hold himself/herself/itself to the very standards that (s)he demands from us.
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  3. #63
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    An omnipotent, almighty Know-it-all designs and creates his own universe out of thin air.. nothing exists before, except what he creates.. and with all this power he "accidentally" fucks up a few things ?
    That's not really omnipotent then, is it?
    There is nothing in the definition of omnipotent that includes "good".

  4. #64
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    By definition god knows everything, what was, what is, and what ever will be.
    Ok, then yes he is evil.
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  5. #65
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    Who says they were designed to do that? God didn't know at the time he created them, that they would evolve into something dangerous
    So, your God is not omniscient? That isn't what the majority of theists insist.
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  6. #66
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    There is nothing in the definition of omnipotent that includes "good".
    Kind of the point I have been making. Why, then, would theists, insist on worshipping an evil being, and insisting that he is "wonderful, loving, gracious, and good"?

  7. #67
    Established Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    There is nothing in the definition of omnipotent that includes "good".
    fully agreed.. but it kind of includes "infallible".. right ?

    So a little "oopsie" like a lifetaking killer bacteria - unintended - ... is not really in the concept then.

  8. #68
    Veteran Member Pragmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    So, your God is not omniscient? That isn't what the majority of theists insist.
    Nope, too much evidence to the contrary.

  9. #69
    Established Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Because what you are describing is a God who absolutely does not deserve our respect even, let alone our worship. "Do as I say, not as I do," The God you describe expects us to hold ourselves to a moral, and ethical standard that you are saying the God you are describing does not, and doesn't even pretend to.

    And you can't even use the "If you don't do things his way, he will smite you," threat, as the very diseases, and catastrophes demonstrate that he is going to do that randomly, just for shits, and giggles, anyway. So the threat kind of looses its impact.
    Yepp.. pretty much nailed it.

    Do as i say, not as i do.

    That's exactly how god describes himself.. in the genesis. HE has the knowledge, he plants the tree of the knowledge.. and tells his creation " DO NOT DO AS I DO.. do NOT eat from the tree."

    Do as i say, not as i do.

    That's the common christian god.
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  10. #70
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pragmatist View Post
    Nope, too much evidence to the contrary.
    Huh. I believe the adherents of every monotheistic religion in the world would disagree with you. And it makes the entire line of Biblical narrative even worse.


    1. God Creates humanity.
    2. God puts the source of knowledge of Good and Evil in a prominent place so they can see it every day, and then tells them not to fuck with it.
    3. God specifically designs a being to tell them all of the benefits of fucking with it.
    4. God clearly is so ignorant of his own creation that he is incapable of seeing that he designed everything in such a way that his creation would not be able to resist doing what they had been told not to do.
    5. God then gets pissed off because humanity did exactly what God should have had the foresight to know they would do.


    Everything then progresses from that. Destruction, chaos, death, war, genocide, slavery, and more. Much of it at the personal direction of God, and by his design.

    And this is a God theists expect us to worship? For fuck's sake why?!?!?
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