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Thread: Christians break the Golden Rule when accepting Jesus as savior.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Would you tell your wife to love her enemy as she is getting raped by him?

    Would you love him?

    Regards
    DL
    i've heard of people doing that. And loving enemies who did worse for that matter.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayton3 View Post
    i've heard of people doing that. And loving enemies who did worse for that matter.
    Really? Sounds like a like to me.

    Links please to such a strange occurrence.

    How is that love of a rapist shown. Should the husband go fetch his daughter for the rapists next?

    Regards
    DL

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Would you tell your wife to love her enemy as she is getting raped by him?

    Would you love him?

    Regards
    DL
    Of course not.

    But that is the moral standard jesus taught -- to forgive and love the people who persecuted and crucified him -- NOT substitutionary atonement you are ranting about.

  4. #14
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Of course not.
    Thanks for the recant. Finally, an intelligent and moral position.

    But that is the moral standard jesus taught --
    A teaching you now intelligently reject.

    to forgive and love the people who persecuted and crucified him -- NOT substitutionary atonement you are ranting about.
    I agree.

    That is a whole different and immoral issue and strange that you say that God/Jesus did not teach it when most Christians say he used it.

    Regards
    DL

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    I agree.

    That is a whole different and immoral issue and strange that you say that God/Jesus did not teach it when most Christians say he used it.

    Regards
    DL
    What I am saying here isn't terribly complicated and STILL, you miss the point every single time.

    You ask if I can forgive my enemies. I said I can't.

    Whether I can or can't forgive my enemies and persecutors is IRRELEVANT to christianity's teachings. It only means I am honest enough to admit my short-comings, not that I am 'recanting' any church position (I don't even know how someone is ignorant enough to think that I can recant a church position in the first place).

    I repeat, substitutionary atonement is immoral only when it is forced on somebody. Jesus freely accepted the crucifixion so your entire thread is standing on a wrong premise.

    Understand?

  6. #16
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    What I am saying here isn't terribly complicated and STILL, you miss the point every single time.

    You ask if I can forgive my enemies. I said I can't.

    Whether I can or can't forgive my enemies and persecutors is IRRELEVANT to christianity's teachings. It only means I am honest enough to admit my short-comings, not that I am 'recanting' any church position (I don't even know how someone is ignorant enough to think that I can recant a church position in the first place).

    I repeat, substitutionary atonement is immoral only when it is forced on somebody. Jesus freely accepted the crucifixion so your entire thread is standing on a wrong premise.

    Understand?
    Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

    "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

    Go peddle your lies to those foolish enough to believe them.

    Regards
    DL

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

    "Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

    Go peddle your lies to those foolish enough to believe them.

    Regards
    DL
    Matthew 26:47-56New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus Arrested
    47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.

    50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[a]

    Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

    52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

    55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

    Does that seem like jesus did not freely accept the crucifixion?

    Uhmmm....duh?

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    You are correct. Jesus did not invent it. It sums up the 'law and the prophets'.

    What he did say earlier in the sermon on the mount is to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you -- a christian concept. Which brings us to the new commandment I provided. How ought we treat one another if god himself suffered a painful and humiliating death for our sake?

    It is a profound lesson in morality. Unfortunately for the op, the only thing he got out of it is substitutionary atonement.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Would you tell your wife to love her enemy as she is getting raped by him?

    Would you love him?

    Regards
    DL
    The question is not about personal attitudes but about sensible law in any society. If some men import capitalist attitudes into sexual relations, they are better locked away until they learn to keep their nasty exploitation to the economic sphere - at least unless we grow out of this squalid filth and become human.

  10. #20
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Matthew 26:47-56New International Version (NIV)

    Jesus Arrested
    47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.

    50 Jesus replied, “Do what you came for, friend.”[a]

    Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

    52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?”

    55 In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. 56 But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.

    Does that seem like jesus did not freely accept the crucifixion?

    Uhmmm....duh?
    Doing the Fathers will was what he was resigned to do. Not his own will which would have had him live without it.

    Uhmmm....duh.

    John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Only a fool would not know that your bible is full of contradictions.

    Uhmmm....duh.

    Regards
    DL

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