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Thread: Wouldn't Free Will mean...we humans are more poweful than God?

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Actually, no. We were 'designed' to be good. In genesis, creation was always followed by "...it is good".

    If obedience to law was the point, then we could just as easily have been created as inanimate objects, no free will and would obey the laws of nature to the letter -- no exceptions. Inanimate objects however, can not know itself, others and the creator himself -- hence incapable of accepting and offering love. Only with free will can one accept and offer love.

    As I have often said, evil has no independent existence. It is a corrupted love.
    God is the epitome of evil..he is omnipotent and stands by and watches people drown in tsunami's, babies dying of starvation when he could make it rain etc. if I am at the beach and see your baby drowning and can pull it out and I don't what would you think of me? If I am watching a child dying of starvation and give it no food what would you think of me?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    God is the epitome of evil..he is omnipotent and stands by and watches people drown in tsunami's, babies dying of starvation when he could make it rain etc.
    But he also has power over death itself, which makes all that irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isalexi View Post
    if I am at the beach and see your baby drowning and can pull it out and I don't what would you think of me? If I am watching a child dying of starvation and give it no food what would you think of me?
    Obviously, you would be guilty of sins by omission.

    Do you imagine god to be subject to your personal judgement? People die, whether by someone else's action or through the natural course of one's life. The difference being you are powerless in the face of death while god has absolute power over death.

  3. #43
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Only if god doesn't love mankind.

    But that is the christian premise, is it not? That god created mankind out of love and that love is rendered moot if it is not reciprocated.
    Are you saying that God's love is conditional on reciprocation? Seems rather petty. But then, God never raised a child, so I can't expect that he would understand.
    Thanks from GordonGecko

  4. #44
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Are you saying that God's love is conditional on reciprocation? Seems rather petty. But then, God never raised a child, so I can't expect that he would understand.
    Likely? He'll now contradict his previous statement ("and that love is rendered moot if it is not reciprocated.")

    and say "No, God's love is UN-conditional"....but give you several paragraphs of filibuster trying to make it LOOK like he's not contradicting himself.



    Or he won't do that...and show that God is a raging egomaniac.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Are you saying that God's love is conditional on reciprocation?
    Not at all.

    I am saying human nature is conditional on reciprocation. You said it yourself sometime ago -- that human beings are nothing more than a collection of different substances arranged in a particular manner thus ordained to behave according to physical laws -- did you not? If that were so, then you are free from moral judgment and your life is but an errant blip within the existence of inanimate objects.

    Other people believe that our physical bodies are mere shells of our actual selves, that our actual selves survive the deterioration of our physical bodies and that our existence have a place in god's creation -- hence we have a duty to be true to that nature.
    Last edited by kingrat; 15th March 2017 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    He'll now contradict his previous statement ("and that love is rendered moot if it is not reciprocated.")

    and say "No, God's love is UN-conditional"....but give you several paragraphs of filibuster trying to make it LOOK like he's not contradicting himself.
    It is funny how you presume to know what other people believe and end up looking dumb every single time.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Seems rather petty. But then, God never raised a child, so I can't expect that he would understand.
    Exactly the point.

    A parent's love is (supposed to be) unconditional, whether that child rejects a parent's love or not. But sometimes, a child rejects a parent's love even to the point of that child's undoing. What then is a loving parent supposed to do except forgive and try to spare the child's suffering as best he can?

    The alternative -- making decisions for the child (which is the same as what gordo is suggesting by taking back free will) -- is infinitely worse than any mistake the child could make.

  8. #48
    olguy OlGuy's Avatar
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    I thought free will was just the corollary to determinism, since we're not robots.

  9. #49
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    ... Other people believe that our physical bodies are mere shells of our actual selves, that our actual selves survive the deterioration of our physical bodies and that our existence have a place in god's creation -- hence we have a duty to be true to that nature.
    Those are two separate beliefs. Perhaps our physical bodies are shells of our actual shelves - but why should those selves survive the deterioration of our physical bodies? There's evidence to support non-existence; after all, your "actual self" did not exist until you were born (or conceived, if you wish).

    Why is it so hard to believe that it may return to non-existence in the future? Unlike habitation in some celestial realm, non-existence is a precedented state.

  10. #50
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Exactly the point.

    A parent's love is (supposed to be) unconditional, whether that child rejects a parent's love or not. But sometimes, a child rejects a parent's love even to the point of that child's undoing. What then is a loving parent supposed to do except forgive and try to spare the child's suffering as best he can? ...
    The child does not have to accept a parent's love; but the love is still given, regardless and unconditionally.

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