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Thread: "God" is a tyrant

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Wellll...except he didn't just say that, did he? Had he just said that, and left it there, there would have been no problem. But, he followed that up with, "Do things my way, or I am going to flay the skin off your bones for all eternity" (yes, that is a paraphrase, not a direct quotation from any point in the Bible). Therein lies my problem. When you deliver a "choice", in which the consequences of one option are too severe for a reasonable person to consider subjecting one's self to, then the choice ceases to be choice, and becomes coercion.
    I don't know which Bible you are reading, but, it seems that you have overly fixated on but a few passages.

    For my part (and, I assume @TNVolunteer73 feels the same), the "negative" of HELL does not motivate me to be good. To be honest, the "positives" of Heaven to not really motivate me.

    The MESSAGE and LIFE of Christ, as well as His comfort, love and guidance, in THIS world, are the greatest gifts.

    Other than that, I share TNVol's idea that God simply offers us a choice: Accept Him, and be with Him, in His house. Reject him, and spend eternity in the other house.
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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    I don't know which Bible you are reading, but, it seems that you have overly fixated on but a few passages.

    For my part (and, I assume @TNVolunteer73 feels the same), the "negative" of HELL does not motivate me to be good. To be honest, the "positives" of Heaven to not really motivate me.

    The MESSAGE and LIFE of Christ, as well as His comfort, love and guidance, in THIS world, are the greatest gifts.

    Other than that, I share TNVol's idea that God simply offers us a choice: Accept Him, and be with Him, in His house. Reject him, and spend eternity in the other house.
    And there it is: Carrot, and stick. Coercion. You can choose to be blind to the obvious nature if you wish, but that doesn't stop it from being what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    And there it is: Carrot, and stick. Coercion. You can choose to be blind to the obvious nature if you wish, but that doesn't stop it from being what it is.
    No there is a Carrot and Carrot coercion

    you love God and want to be with him, He says okay

    you don't want to be with God, he says Okay.

    Really there is no coercion at all. No one not even God is forcing you to do anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    And there it is: Carrot, and stick. Coercion. You can choose to be blind to the obvious nature if you wish, but that doesn't stop it from being what it is.
    Typical Liberal response: "Give me, what I have never sought to earn. In fact, give me a place in your home, even though I reject you, or else you are 'evil.'"

    How fucking spoiled can one be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

    Otherwise, why fill the Bible with references of the eternal torture, and suffering that would befall non-believers after judgement, when one dies. Now, the first question that is going to be asked is going to be an attempt at a distraction: "Why should I care what the Bible says, since I'm an Atheist?" However, it doesn't matter what my theological position is, does it? "The truth is the truth," right? So, if the Bible is the Truth, then the things that are in the Bible are "the Truth" whether I believe them, or not. Which, brings us right back around to my question. If God is not a tyrant, and does not demand worship from everyone, then why threaten anyone who does not believe? If God does not care one way, or the other, if someone chooses to believe, or not, why bother with all of the threats?
    Very true.

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    What cracks me up is when Xians talk like this... As if there really is a God.

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    Typical Liberal response: "Give me, what I have never sought to earn. In fact, give me a place in your home, even though I reject you, or else you are 'evil.'"

    How fucking spoiled can one be?
    It's the nature of the "other House" I have a problem with. It's not like God says, "Hey, follow me, and you get to live on Park Avenue. And if you don't, you have to settle for living in Long Island," as if both places are perfectly nice, and it's just really a choice of where do you want to spend your eternity. No. It's, "Follow me, and you get to live in Park Avenue, otherwise, I'm going to send off to Cabrini Green, and I am going to populate it with all of the rats, and roaches, and ever other kind of filth, and disease, and any other thing that ever filled your darkest dreams, and you get to spend eternity there,"

    You want to act as if people are being given equal, or at least, relatively comparable, choices. They're not. That is what makes it coercion.
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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    No there is a Carrot and Carrot coercion

    you love God and want to be with him, He says okay

    you don't want to be with God, he says Okay.

    Really there is no coercion at all. No one not even God is forcing you to do anything.
    That's a lie, because the proposition includes an "...or else" clause. God, the Bible, and mainstream Christianity includes the threat of the "alternative" in the equation that you want to pretend isn't present. Look at Pascal's Divine Wager, and the true nature of the threat becomes clear.
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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    What cracks me up is when Xians talk like this... As if there really is a God.
    What cracks me up is how Christians constantly use this Carrot and Stick version of proselytization, like relying on the classic Pascal's Divine Wager, right up until you point out the tyrannical nature of such a proposition. Then, suddenly, no one is ever threatening anyone with anything. Christianity is all sunshine, puppy dogs, and fluffy bunnies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Proposed: The Christian God is a tyrant determined to force everyone on the planet to convert to Christianity, and worship as a Christian, and the illusion of "Free Will" is a pretence that he created to convince you that observance was your own idea.

    Otherwise, why fill the Bible with references of the eternal torture, and suffering that would befall non-believers after judgement, when one dies. Now, the first question that is going to be asked is going to be an attempt at a distraction: "Why should I care what the Bible says, since I'm an Atheist?" However, it doesn't matter what my theological position is, does it? "The truth is the truth," right? So, if the Bible is the Truth, then the things that are in the Bible are "the Truth" whether I believe them, or not. Which, brings us right back around to my question. If God is not a tyrant, and does not demand worship from everyone, then why threaten anyone who does not believe? If God does not care one way, or the other, if someone chooses to believe, or not, why bother with all of the threats?
    Islam is doing the same and far more and as expected you will give it a pass.

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