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Thread: "God" is a tyrant

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    I see that you pout words together on the page. And, I'm sure that, somewhere in your mind, there was a logic to them, but all I see is gibberish. rational thought, and free will?
    I wonder what sort of mind would find gibberish in rational thought and free will? Perhaps somebody who is not in possession of rational thought and free will?

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    When I sit you in a chair, put a gun to your head, and say, "sign over everything you own to me, or I put a bullet in your brain," You have rational free will, right?
    What is a rational free will? You have free will, whether you exercise it for rational ends or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    You can choose to sign everything over, or not. No one is taking away your right to make a choice.

    Hell is the gun at your head.
    What nonsense.

    I do not owe you anything, so why should I give you what I own on pain of death, hmmm?

    You, on the other hand, owe god your very existence. He wants you to be happy and is telling you that you will never be happy as a profane, murdering, lying, coveting (etc.) ignoramus. Whether that is true or not, you will find out soon enough because you cannot escape your own nature.

    And if that isn't a clear enough comparison, imagine a loving father.

    He teaches his children right and wrong because they do not know any better, right? He lends them the benefit of his experience as an adult because he knows the consequences of right and wrong actions and he wants them to gain the benefits and spare them the adverse consequences, right? Sometimes, he feels afraid for their well-being that he wishes that he can make their decisions for them -- except that restricting their choices is far worse than whatever consequence he can think of. And when his children feel self-doubt and despair, a father assures them that everything will be all right.

    So, how exactly are the actions of a loving father different from god's self-revelation, hmmmm?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    What does Christianity promise God is going to do to all unbelievers in the "final judgement"? Using your word, "Duh,"
    I don't know what some ignoramus led you to believe but my catechism taught me that everyone is saved however shitty they are. God knows we are going to do horrendous things and he went through the crucifixion regardless. The idea of divine punishment and reward is an immature way of understanding religion.

  3. #63
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    I don't know what some ignoramus led you to believe but my catechism taught me that everyone is saved however shitty they are. God knows we are going to do horrendous things and he went through the crucifixion regardless. The idea of divine punishment and reward is an immature way of understanding religion.
    So, since I choose to not worship this God of yours, it is your contention that there is no Lake of Fire, and eternal place of torment where I am going to be sent?

  4. #64
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    What nonsense are you spouting about now, eh?

    The better analogy is ...
    First, explain EXACTLY why my analogy is "flawed"?

  5. #65
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    No, actually, Gordon's analogy is much closer. You are talking gibberish about functionality. I am talking about unjust punishment.
    Despite his "superior intellect", kingrat has a standard M.O. that he rarely wavers from....

    1. Don't answer your question or dismiss it.

    2. Provide his own version of the question, then answer it.

    3. Insult you personally.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    First, explain EXACTLY why my analogy is "flawed"?
    Firstly, you mistake divine law with human law, where the consequences of sin needs to be enforced. The consequence of sin is itself in much the same way that the reward for a moral act is itself. You feel good for doing something good even when there is no visible benefit and you feel bad for doing something bad even if no one is punishing you for it. And so you think of god as a super cop that torments you when the truth of the matter is, your torment is the logical consequence of your actions. And all this time, god is trying to save you from that torment.

    Secondly, the commandment to love god and your neighbors is a spiritual necessity in much the same way that eating and breathing are physical necessities. It is not an arbitrary commandment rather it is the standard by which human beings ought to live in the first place -- to be capable of giving and receiving love.

    Thirdly, what you call sin is actually a corrupted love. The seven deadly sins proceed from human nature, a nature which we deem to be inherently good. They become evil because of an inordinate love for things that betray that very same human nature.

    Understand?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Despite his "superior intellect", kingrat has a standard M.O. that he rarely wavers from....

    1. Don't answer your question or dismiss it.
    I do answer your questions. It just so happens that your questions come from defective premise which I am trying to correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    2. Provide his own version of the question, then answer it.
    What? I only state what catholic catechism says.

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    3. Insult you personally.
    But the thing is, you are the one who presume to know what christians believe and criticize them for what you think they believe.

    Case in point -- you blame christians for what is written in the ot when the fact is, it was the jews who gave the world the greek translation of the ot and you never once, called out a jew to justify their own history. And so, christians are idiots for worshiping a genocidal god while ignoring the fact that it was the jews who performed the genocide in the first place.

    And you wonder why I have nothing but contempt for your agenda?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    So, since I choose to not worship this God of yours, it is your contention that there is no Lake of Fire, and eternal place of torment where I am going to be sent?
    The 'lake of fire' is understood as an allegory to describe the torment of a soul completely removed from god's grace (according to catholic teaching). In any case, catholics believe that there is salvation outside the church and that 'worship' depends on the dictates of your own conscience.

    However, there are consequences in the exercise of your free will and you need not believe in religion to accept that logic.

  9. #69
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Firstly, you mistake divine law with human law, where the consequences of sin needs to be enforced. The consequence of sin is itself in much the same way that the reward for a moral act is itself. You feel good for doing something good even when there is no visible benefit and you feel bad for doing something bad even if no one is punishing you for it. And so you think of god as a super cop that torments you when the truth of the matter is, your torment is the logical consequence of your actions. And all this time, god is trying to save you from that torment.

    Secondly, the commandment to love god and your neighbors is a spiritual necessity in much the same way that eating and breathing are physical necessities. It is not an arbitrary commandment rather it is the standard by which human beings ought to live in the first place -- to be capable of giving and receiving love.

    Thirdly, what you call sin is actually a corrupted love. The seven deadly sins proceed from human nature, a nature which we deem to be inherently good. They become evil because of an inordinate love for things that betray that very same human nature.

    Understand?
    None of that refutes my analogy, which stated....

    God is the "King" ....the "Island" is the Earth....we are the "subjects of the King".....and God created "the Rules" by which a person gets "eternal happiness" or "eternal torture".

    Refute that.

  10. #70
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    I said

    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    2. Provide his own version of the question, then answer it.
    He denies that.....then does it...



    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    It just so happens that your questions come from defective premise which I am trying to correct.

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