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Thread: Two questions for theists

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I don't think that you meant "theists". I think that you meant Christians, or at least, believers in the Abrahamic God. Your questions wouldn't apply to all theists, and would certainly not apply to all deists.
    Spookycolt's actually right. There are very few theists out there, these days, that are outside of the Abrahamic flavour. Pagans, and that's about it.

  2. #12
    Official HayJenn fan boi knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You will hear it because it's the correct answer.

    That's like someone asking what 1 + 1 is and you saying, "they will give the same bullshit answer of two".

    Yes, because that's what it is. Your not liking it doesn't make it true.
    You're assuming that your idea of the way things are is the only way they can be. Very wrong. Your world view is different. I don't live in the world you live in. In your world there is a man in the sky that created everything and loves you but only if you do certain things..that's not my reality. Your world is of fear...of dying. You don't want to leave the earth, so to make yourself feel better you buy into the greatest scam in human history...religion. That's you world...don't automatically think that your world can overtake mine. It can't. Just as my world can't overtake yours. You believe whatever you want...just don't expect me to follow you down the foolish path that is well worn from people like you for the last 2000 years. It's not real to me.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.
    Simple. He doesn't test you. He knows what you will do and forgives you regardless. In fact, he has given you an infinite amount of time to 'get the message'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.
    You mean magically altering an effect that doesn't follow its logical cause -- like being happy for brutally killing your neighbor? You would be an animal, not a human being.

    Or did you mean making you incapable of willfully choosing something contrary to your own nature. You would be an inanimate object, not a human being.

    Clearly, 'stopping evil' requires that you be reduced to something less than what human nature dictates -- which is, itself a bigger evil than the evil it was meant to stop in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.
    The rapist cannot know true happiness for doing something that is contrary to human nature -- that is, loving another person and being loved by that person.

    To the victim of whatever injustice, god is capable of causing something good from whatever evil befalls him or her.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit......
    That's only because you keep asking the same question.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    "Why does God allow humans to do awful things, but don't say they have free will"

    Well checkmate, you got me.

    The universe that a God created contains time and space. Time is the measure of our universe. Time effects what is in the universe. It does not effect the creator.

    Your question implies that God is watching things develop, as they happen. As if the creator of time is actually experiencing time. Seeing new things as new and past things as past.

    I would ask this counter question. If you love yourself and want the best for yourself, why do you let your skin cells die?

    Is the answer that you don't exist?

  6. #16
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Spookycolt's actually right. There are very few theists out there, these days, that are outside of the Abrahamic flavour. Pagans, and that's about it.
    I suppose, if you are referring only to this forum site, rather than to the nation or the planet as a whole, then that would be true.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.
    1. Where has God Tested anyone?

    there are many examples where people have tested God Gidion was the most notable

    2. God does not want robots.. he wants people to Love him if they chose, and if they choose not to that is their choice..

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    1) God knows everything about us but we ourselves do not, hence the tests and trials. It's how we grow and learn.

    2) If God prevented people from doing evil he would remove their freewill and have nothing but a bunch of mindless drones who worship him. Your comparison of rape to letting a child make a mistake is foolish because the parent, according to God, should do the Christian thing and step in and save the woman being helped.


    God did not create evil, he created man and some men choose to do evil.

    Hell, even the angels have freewill and could, and have, gone against God.
    Who created earthquakes who created famines? What do they have to do with free will?

  9. #19
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    "Why does God allow humans to do awful things, but don't say they have free will"

    Well checkmate, you got me.

    The universe that a God created contains time and space. Time is the measure of our universe. Time effects what is in the universe. It does not effect the creator.

    Your question implies that God is watching things develop, as they happen. As if the creator of time is actually experiencing time. Seeing new things as new and past things as past.

    I would ask this counter question. If you love yourself and want the best for yourself, why do you let your skin cells die?

    Is the answer that you don't exist?
    I don't let my skin cells die I get monthly skin cell transplant

  10. #20
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    1. Where has God Tested anyone?

    there are many examples where people have tested God Gidion was the most notable

    2. God does not want robots.. he wants people to Love him if they chose, and if they choose not to that is their choice..
    1- when the omnipotent god refuses to make rain so children will die in agony.....he is testing them to see how long it takes for them to die. ....even as they pray for rain.
    2- god must be insecure if he needs people to love him and worship him

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