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Thread: Two questions for theists

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Two questions for theists

    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.

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    Innocent knight's Avatar
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    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit. Good questions that the thumpers won't be able to answer, because there is no answer. Not one that makes sense anyway.

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit. Good questions that the thumpers won't be able to answer, because there is no answer. Not one that makes sense anyway.
    I have to say, I got the most disturbing answer ever, on another forums,. Lemme share it with you. It's wordy, but see if you can boil down the essence of the answer:

    I see that your problem is with the perception of time which magnifies the relevance and distorts out of proportion your subjective perception of suffering and evil.

    What if the most horrible suffering imaginable lasted 20, 30, 50, or even 200 years? What is it really when compared to eternity?

    Nothing.

    The purpose for all that suffering might be as simple as the purpose for slapping a baby on its ass, so to speak, to encourage life and inspire living, in the grand scheme of things a fleeting moment. Nothing when compared to all the unexplored wonders of living in this realm that awaits it.

    In the same way all of your suffering, your trials and tribulations, your pain and sorrow in this realm are only a momentary precursor to a greater awakening. A preparation for the day when you are released from the confinement of this mortal coil and take your first breaths of life into your nostrils as an eternal living being.

    Much of what causes people pain and a sense of loss is from attachments to what they can never possess forever.

    you might not realize this but the fact that people suffer and die on this planet is evidence of a loving and merciful God.

    If you could live forever free of pain on this planet you would be praying for death before you turned 200 years old. After an eon has passed, you would have gone completely insane epochs ago, literally burning alive in sulfurous flames.

    I actually had to read it a couple of times, but when I finally sussed out what he was saying, I was left utterly speechless at the complete insensitivity of his position.

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    New Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.
    1) Do or do not - everything has consequences.
    2) God helps not to have to be evil.

    3) Your ideas about parents and education of children are very strange.

    Last edited by zaangalewa; 12th March 2017 at 10:06 AM.

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    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit. Good questions that the thumpers won't be able to answer, because there is no answer. Not one that makes sense anyway.
    And some long diatribe about how god wasn't just fucking with Job because he's a sadistic bastard is usually included in the apologist's creed for this area of questions.

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    New Member zaangalewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit. Good questions that the thumpers won't be able to answer, because there is no answer. Not one that makes sense anyway.
    Is thumper not one of the stars of Walt Disney? Plays he not a role at Easter too?


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    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.
    1) God knows everything about us but we ourselves do not, hence the tests and trials. It's how we grow and learn.

    2) If God prevented people from doing evil he would remove their freewill and have nothing but a bunch of mindless drones who worship him. Your comparison of rape to letting a child make a mistake is foolish because the parent, according to God, should do the Christian thing and step in and save the woman being helped.


    God did not create evil, he created man and some men choose to do evil.

    Hell, even the angels have freewill and could, and have, gone against God.

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    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You'll hear the usual "free will" bullshit. Good questions that the thumpers won't be able to answer, because there is no answer. Not one that makes sense anyway.
    You will hear it because it's the correct answer.

    That's like someone asking what 1 + 1 is and you saying, "they will give the same bullshit answer of two".

    Yes, because that's what it is. Your not liking it doesn't make it true.
    Thanks from Dr.Knuckles

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    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    A couple of questions for theists.

    1) If god knows everything about you, then why would he test you? He should already know how you would behave in any situation.

    2) If god is all powerful, and evil exists, and god is benevolent, and caring, why does he do nothing to stop evil? God is also supposed to be a loving god, so he should and could prevent people from doing evil.

    Now, I have heard, as a response to this second question, an analogy to Parents not stopping their children from engaging in less than safe behaviour - touching a live wire, touching a hot stove, that sort of thing. The argument being that a loving parent wants their children to "learn" through experience. However, I find this answer more than a little inadequate. After all, what parent, when they are confronted with a rapist throwing their daughter down, and ripping off her dress would not pounce upon the monster, stop him, and destroy him? Would a loving parent allow the rapist to complete his task, in order to allow their child to "learn" some valuable lesson? And just what lesson might that be?

    So, yes. That answer to the second question is woefully lacking.
    I don't think that you meant "theists". I think that you meant Christians, or at least, believers in the Abrahamic God. Your questions wouldn't apply to all theists, and would certainly not apply to all deists.
    Thanks from Babylon

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    Veteran Member Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Yea, we kind of assumed that.

    I don't think there are really many true theists left nowadays.

    Not sane ones anyways.

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