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Thread: Secular families are ethical families

  1. #21
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    After all, moral religious people follow socially-acceptable behaviors because they have been promised rewards in the afterlife - and threatened with eternal damnation should they fail.
    This is not true of all religions.

  2. #22
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    This is not true of all religions.
    mmm...I would challenge you with Djinn's question: You die, and (having lived a good life) qualify for heaven. But before you pass through the pearly gates, you are given the opportunity to give your "gate pass" to a stranger who didn't QUITE make the cut. Would you keep the pass for yourself, having spent a lifetime earning it? Or would you give it to the stranger, because the "eternal reward" wasn't the reason you led a moral life?

  3. #23
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    mmm...I would challenge you with Djinn's question:
    The problem with the question - for me - is that it presumes a particular religious orientation that is foreign to mine. The best I could do is answer in the hypothetical (which I will attempt to do).

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    You die, and (having lived a good life) qualify for heaven. But before you pass through the pearly gates, you are given the opportunity to give your "gate pass" to a stranger who didn't QUITE make the cut. Would you keep the pass for yourself, having spent a lifetime earning it? Or would you give it to the stranger, because the "eternal reward" wasn't the reason you led a moral life?
    Noting that "heaven" is of a particular religious orientation foreign to mine, it would be accurate to say that such an "eternal reward" is not the reason for leading a moral life. Thus, "giving it away" (so to speak) would not only be appropriate, but might actually allow me to get in anyway. I am therefore not entirely sure, but the question may be based in a false dichotomy.
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  4. #24
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    The problem with the question - for me - is that it presumes a particular religious orientation that is foreign to mine. The best I could do is answer in the hypothetical (which I will attempt to do).


    Noting that "heaven" is of a particular religious orientation foreign to mine, it would be accurate to say that such an "eternal reward" is not the reason for leading a moral life. Thus, "giving it away" (so to speak) would not only be appropriate, but might actually allow me to get in anyway. I am therefore not entirely sure, but the question may be based in a false dichotomy.
    Heaven, Paradise, the Good Place, Baltimore. Replace heaven with whatever reward would be appropriate for your belief system. The same question applies. Unless you are of the opinion you have no afterlife, in which case I would say you are a very strange Jew. Because my understanding is that even the Jews have a concept of the afterlife, reward, and punishment.

  5. #25
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    The problem with the OP is that religion and religious are terms that cannot be defined.

    Some religions have no deity.

    Many secular philosophies are still built on ideals and can be closely, passionately held.

    It's an impossible mish-mash.

    The truth is that morality is an individual matter and yes, one can be be quite moral by one's own standards for morality.

    So, yes, I can recycle and pay taxes and give to charity and volunteer at the soup kitchen and remain faithful to my spouse, but I have no problem with abortion.

    So who is to be the judge?
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  6. #26
    Veteran Member DebateDrone's Avatar
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    I don't see it even needing be said that secular families are moral.

    Learning to operate in a society has been part of civilization for eons.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    I just think that after all of the misrepresentation that atheists are, by definition, amoral hedonists who are incapable of formulating any moral codes, it's gratifying to know that we now have statistical data to verify that this is demonstrably not true.
    Part of that is of course that most insidious, yet pandemic characteristic of (typically) fervent Christian bloggers....


    self-righteousness.


    They demean atheists as "immoral"...to make themselves feel superior. Like their "Saved Not Perfect" line....which if you look at it another way is them saying "I may not be perfect, but I'm saved...so I'm better than YOU, you non-believer"...which ironically means that that line, which is supposed to deny they are "holier-than-thou"...

    proves they are just that.
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  8. #28
    Veteran Member GordonGecko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    I question everything.
    False....you NEVER question your belief that you are "oppressed for being a Christian"
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    ^^^How this Thread is totally lost its focus!
    OBTW I am not Christian.
    Laughter is good for the Soul.

  10. #30
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Heaven, Paradise, the Good Place, Baltimore. Replace heaven with whatever reward would be appropriate for your belief system.
    The problem is not the specific word, but the entire conceptual paradigm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Because my understanding is that even the Jews have a concept of the afterlife, reward, and punishment.
    There are very, very few references to a life after this one in Torah to begin with. We do not have anything like the "New Testament," where all that is detailed, and the references therein do not apply in Judaism. Judaism does not teach very much about life after death, because Torah is primarily about life, not death, and there is not much to refer to in any case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    The same question applies.
    Notwithstanding the above, you will notice I did actually answer the question.

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