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Thread: Christianity has no ethical foundation

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Where did Jesus tell anyone to kill babies. oh wait he didn't.. Now the only Baby killing church in the US is the First Church of Convenience

    Kill the baby because it is inconvient for me to pay raise it

    Kill the Baby, I have to give up time out of my life to care for it, because it is inconvenant
    So...Jesus is not the human incarnation of the God of the Old Testament? Christians do not worship the God that is the God of the Old Testament?

    Nio, your God just said, "Kill the babies, because they are different from you,". That's sooooo much better...
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  2. #42
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    OIC. Well, not every Christian sect focuses on the OT, although all of them seem to incorporate that. The idea appears to be, God was horrible, so he decided to try a gentler, kinder approach.

    I don't think you can take issue with the actual sermons or acts ascribed to Jesus, apart from the sexism and anti-human sex phobia. He/they seems obsessed with celibacy and virginity in adults, which I think is unethical.

    He also left the Jews in a completely vulnerable position, after the Crucifixion. Apparently, God's "kinder, gentler" approach to humans did not extend to them. Which might have been excusable, except the whole reason they were in peril to begin with was they followed what God wanted in the OT.
    Except that doesn't square with Rev 22:13. It also doesn't square with the Christian teachings of Jesus' own words. Every Christian Sect agrees that the God of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament, and that, because God is Omnipotent, and Omniscient, he does not change. He is as he has always been. So for you to suggest that God is a "Gentler, Kinder" God is contrary to Christian Doctrine, and it also negates the entire Old Testament. After all, how can you say, with the one hand, that God has become "kinder, and gentler", while, simultaneously insisting that the God of the New Testament is the same God as the Old Testament, so all of the rules of the Old Testament still apply. Those two claims cannot rationally co-exist.
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  3. #43
    Little Old Lady Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Except that doesn't square with Rev 22:13. It also doesn't square with the Christian teachings of Jesus' own words. Every Christian Sect agrees that the God of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament, and that, because God is Omnipotent, and Omniscient, he does not change. He is as he has always been. So for you to suggest that God is a "Gentler, Kinder" God is contrary to Christian Doctrine, and it also negates the entire Old Testament. After all, how can you say, with the one hand, that God has become "kinder, and gentler", while, simultaneously insisting that the God of the New Testament is the same God as the Old Testament, so all of the rules of the Old Testament still apply. Those two claims cannot rationally co-exist.
    Sense is not a feature of Christian dogma generally, I don't think.

  4. #44
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Sense is not a feature of Christian dogma generally, I don't think.
    Hence, the OP. I have yet to find a Christian who has been able to square this circle.
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  5. #45
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    It requires killing babies and cows to defend your life? Or does god just like killing?
    God likes Jews to survive.

  6. #46
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Except that doesn't square with Rev 22:13. It also doesn't square with the Christian teachings of Jesus' own words. Every Christian Sect agrees that the God of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament, and that, because God is Omnipotent, and Omniscient, he does not change. He is as he has always been. So for you to suggest that God is a "Gentler, Kinder" God is contrary to Christian Doctrine, and it also negates the entire Old Testament. After all, how can you say, with the one hand, that God has become "kinder, and gentler", while, simultaneously insisting that the God of the New Testament is the same God as the Old Testament, so all of the rules of the Old Testament still apply. Those two claims cannot rationally co-exist.
    Jews believe their God is different from the Christian God. I believe its the same God, but they don't, so you have a problem proving which is true. If the Old Testament God is not the same God then you have failed to make a connection between the God of Christians. You then are attacking the God of the Jews which makes you an antisemite.
    Last edited by aboutenough; 30th March 2017 at 09:00 PM.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Genocide. Is. Not. A. Reasonable. Act. Of. War!!! At least, not among any civilized human beings! You keep saying that like it is perfectly reasonable to go around hacking up babies, and blowing off the heads of five-year-olds, just so long as they are only the children of people you are at war with! Rational, ethical people do not think that - ever. So, no. There is no "problem" with my argument. The only problem is that you have no problem with killing babies, and children, just so long as it is in the name of a cause you agree with.
    Your argument doesn't add up. The God of the Jews ordered what you call a Genocide and you are trying to connect this to Christians. Jews would strongly disagree with the connection you are trying to make, they believe there is a God of the Jews and a God of the Christians. You will have to heap this upon their God even though most Jews are Democrats.

  8. #48
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Religion isn't about ethics. Religion is about morality.

    Reforming a murderer is ethical. Hanging him is moral.

    Most of the debates on this board are actually debates between what's moral and what's ethical.

  9. #49
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Your argument doesn't add up. The God of the Jews ordered what you call a Genocide and you are trying to connect this to Christians. Jews would strongly disagree with the connection you are trying to make, they believe there is a God of the Jews and a God of the Christians. You will have to heap this upon their God even though most Jews are Democrats.
    No, they wouldn't. It's not what I call a genocide; it is a genocide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. How else do you describe the order to kill an entire nation, including the livestock? Not just kill all of the fighting males, mind you. Not even just kill all of the adults. But kill every member of the nation, including the children, infants, and even their livestock.

    Since you, apparently, would not call that a genocide, just what would you call it? And don't bother with "War". Because, at no time in the course of human events, did any civilized nation ever declare, or wage, war by the slaughter of all of the children of the nation with whom they were at war. Now, notice that I didn't say that no one has ever done this, so don't bother giving the example - such as Attila the Hun, or Genghis Khan - who, in fact, did wage war in just that manner. I said no civilized nation has ever done that.

    So, the simple, trite answer, "War" is off the table. So what would you call ordering the complete annihilation of a nation, including its children, and even livestock, if not a genocide?

    See, now you want to pretend that God didn't really say what the bible clearly states that God said. So, what? The Bible lied?
    Last edited by Czernobog; 30th March 2017 at 10:13 PM.
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  10. #50
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Religion isn't about ethics. Religion is about morality.

    Reforming a murderer is ethical. Hanging him is moral.

    Most of the debates on this board are actually debates between what's moral and what's ethical.
    Same problem. When you start with a religion that worships a God that orders genocide, you have rather lost any moral high ground.

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