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Thread: Christianity has no ethical foundation

  1. #61
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Religion isn't about ethics. Religion is about morality.

    Reforming a murderer is ethical. Hanging him is moral.

    Most of the debates on this board are actually debates between what's moral and what's ethical.
    Morality =/= ethics?

    Could you expand on this thought?

  2. #62
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Same problem. When you start with a religion that worships a God that orders genocide, you have rather lost any moral high ground.
    The Jews are not of one mind as to how the Torah should be read and interpreted. I doubt many Jews believe the events occurred as described; that appears to be a fundamentalist Christian trope.
    Thanks from Isalexi

  3. #63
    Polemicist Supremum Monk-Eye's Avatar
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    Attacking Enemies On Behalf Of Shit Stains

    " Attacking Enemies On Behalf Of Shit Stains "

    * Manipulated Tools Hypnotized On Their Target *

    The fundamentalist christian is fervently opposing the advance of fictional ishmaelism and the saudi propaganda machine is paying the imbeciles on the left , and anyone they can find , to pave the way for their degenerate psychosis .

    Te left is awash with objective ignorant fools whose assertion to remain intolerant of the intolerant is as hypocritical as it gets when it comes to fictional ishmaelism psychopaths .

  4. #64
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    The entire definition of Christian is someone who worships Christ. The New Testament.

    Christ changes absolutely everything. His coming is a new deal, new rules, new morality, new reality.

    Of course the New Testament contradicts the Old one. That's why they are different things. Think of it, as an American, as The Old Testament being English Common Law and The New Testament being The Constitution.

    The old one may have some lingering effects, but the new one is the one that defines us.

    A Christian follows the New Testament. Post Christ.

    If you are troubled by the Old Testament and sacrifices and genocides and rapes and slaves then you'll need to take that up with Jews and Muslims.

    For Christians, Christ is a brand new covenant with God. Nothing before is still in effect.
    Except that's not what Jesus said. Matt 5: 17 & 18:

    5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    So, is Jesus a liar? Or did Heaven, and Earth pass, and no one told me? Because the guy you claim to follow said the exact opposite of what you just said. In fact, Christians teach the exact opposite of what you are saying - well...they do, right up until someone points out what I just did.


    Christians teach the God of the Old Testament is the very same God that Christians worship today...right up until someone points out the cruelty, and injustice of the Old Testament God. Then, suddenly, it's "Hey! That's the Jewish God. We're Christians. That's not our God".

    Nice Try, Dr. Knuckles. Jesus is not your God. The God of Abraham is still your God, and that God ordered a genocide. So, unless you are saying that the Bible is not true, you still have to square that circle.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 31st March 2017 at 08:00 AM.

  5. #65
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    When you start with an author who writes that God ordered a genocide, the author has lost moral high ground.
    Not when that author has God's "own words" to support that claim. The words are right there in your Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    I can write that you stole something and others might believe it. Does my writing that actually make you a thief?
    That depends. Do you have the evidence to support your accusation? See, I didn't just write "God did this". I provided chapter and verse where God did exactly what I claimed he did. You want to pretend the Bible doesn't say what it says.

  6. #66
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Knuckles View Post
    Let's be a little bit sensible about what we attribute to "God" saying or doing or thinking.

    There is not a single word in the Bible that was not written, edited, translated, selected, and designated as biblical, by human beings.

    It is a collection of human beings' ideas and stories about God.

    Human beings being the same species that can't agree if pigs are edible.
    So, when the Bible specifically says, "God said..." it doesn't really mean, "God said..."?

    So, the Bible is not true, and accurate? Okay then. Christianity is based on an inaccurate, unreliable book written 2,000 years ago.

    So much better...

  7. #67
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Correct.

    The god of the old testament is the god of the new testament. I am going to state further that the god of islam is the god of the old and new testament. I am still going to state further that all the god/s of all religions is one and the same. The only difference is the way human understanding comprehends divine revelation.



    Correct. I worship the same god.

    I do not, however, subscribe to islam or judaism or paganism (or whatever religion you may think of), which as I have already explained, is the way different people understand divine revelation. I accept everything that is good in all religions and I reject everything that is bad in all religions (which is how catholicism defines the church's relationship with other religions in nostra aetate).

    So again, why are you blaming christians for the genocide the jews (allegedly) committed? Shouldn't you direct your question at judaism -- the particular religion that asserts god commanded them to commit genocide?
    Except that your religion also determined those same books of the Old Testament to have been the accurate, divinely inspired, records of God. So, your religion also believes that God issued that command. Now, how you reconcile that God to your "message of peace" is entirely up to you. But, don't pretend that you magically worship a different God.

  8. #68
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    There is nothing sensible about the christian attacks in this forum. Heck, they do not even have the common sense to direct these attacks against the correct religion.

    How can christianity be responsible for what the jews did half a millennium prior to christianity's establishment?????
    Let's try this one more time. Do Christians worship the same God a the Jews? Yes, or no. Note, I am not talking about the Christian belie that the messiah has already come to Earth. I am referring to the actual God. Is it the same God as the Jews? Yes, or No?

  9. #69
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    No, they wouldn't. It's not what I call a genocide; it is a genocide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. How else do you describe the order to kill an entire nation, including the livestock? Not just kill all of the fighting males, mind you. Not even just kill all of the adults. But kill every member of the nation, including the children, infants, and even their livestock.

    Since you, apparently, would not call that a genocide, just what would you call it? And don't bother with "War". Because, at no time in the course of human events, did any civilized nation ever declare, or wage, war by the slaughter of all of the children of the nation with whom they were at war. Now, notice that I didn't say that no one has ever done this, so don't bother giving the example - such as Attila the Hun, or Genghis Khan - who, in fact, did wage war in just that manner. I said no civilized nation has ever done that.

    So, the simple, trite answer, "War" is off the table. So what would you call ordering the complete annihilation of a nation, including its children, and even livestock, if not a genocide?

    See, now you want to pretend that God didn't really say what the bible clearly states that God said. So, what? The Bible lied?
    Almost the same thing our ancestors did to the American Indians. I will say it again it was an act of war. God does not say "turn the other cheek and let your enemies defeat and kill you. Many times God helped David while he was fighting wars defeat the enemy. They were outnumbered. Are you mad about that to. Just admit it , you hate God and can't understand why he would protect those that follow him, especially the Jews. This is not about Christians as much as you try to say it is. You are an Antisemite discriminating towards the Jews. Surprised this thread is allowed to continue. Shameful

  10. #70
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Apparently, in abject misery.

    The Judeo-Christian God seems to be a horrible bigot, to my eye.
    You will have to take up this issues with Jews that obeyed God's commands. Christianity didn't start for at least a 1000 years later.

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