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Thread: Where does this sort of "Chistianity" come from???????

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Not to mention genetics, that baby may well grow up to be a rapist himself.
    In the case of stranger rape, the kid could grow to be a violent individual.
    Link?

    I'm not aware that dangerousness has been proven to have a genetic basis.

  2. #22
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    IME, people who actually have faith are very, very rare. I don't think I have ever met one.

    But I know many who are attracted to the idea, and spend their lives trying to achieve it. Some in very admirable ways.

    Others, not so much.
    I know a lot of people who have faith in a lot of things, including themselves (some perhaps too much so, relative to the "success" of their deeds). Some have faith that no god(s) exist, some do, some seem to put more "faith" in some parts of their "religious/spiritual" reading or taught material and some have faith in other parts. Some people have faith/trust in one another to do the right thing or perhaps in some cases, the devious thing.

    I neither love or hate anyone's faith or spirituality, regardless of what it is about. What does disturb me is when some people seem to believe their "faith/spirituality, should be everyone's and they act on that premise, trying to force everyone else, to live that faith or spirituality. To me and I believe to lots of other people, whatever your faith is, it's yours, not anyone else's unless they might see some merit in sharing it also. Thus while there seems no harm in sharing thoughts about what one personally believes or does not believe or has faith in or not, the harm seems to come when someone thinks I should, essentially, be them. I'm not them and they should stop trying to make me them, against my will. That includes people trying to force me or anyone else, to either "believe" in anyone's god(s) or not believe in any god(s) or anything else for that matter.

    I have a lot of faith in what I would call universal, practical and shared values that transcend all of humanity, no matter the avenue by which they arrived and arrive to our consciousness, through the astute observations, ponderings and conclusions of other who shared the same, about how human beings through the history of human kind, work best as a society/group and what features cause both function and dysfunction of most any society, providing space for the exceptions that occur based on unusual circumstances that make the exceptions reasonable and acceptable.

    Some people seem to think everyone else should either be spirtitual/have faith/attach themselves to an organized faith/religion or think doing so is entirely silly or a waste of time. While I am sure I do get caught up in either/or constructs, for the most part, I don't like them, because I don't know how any human being in the history of humanity or existing today, can know everything and talk about anything with absolute certainty. While we need a certain level of certainty about so many things, to survive, what human is to say god(s) exist or do not exist? So far as I can tell, neither has been proven or disproved beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I prefer to have faith in all those "virtuous" (virtuous because they bring harmony, peace and love, rather than hatred, turmoil and sadness) values that as far as I can see, transcend nearly every human culture, nearly every organized religion and nearly all secular thought or "beliefs". It is my personal thought and some other people join me in this thought, that if all adopted such thoughts, the world would be a better place, BUT I know there are "personal thoughts" or "beliefs" for just about every person on the planet and they likely all vary in some way, large or small, so what I believe in, is not for me to force anyone else to believe in, but perhaps maybe to ponder and see, if in their minds, it is close to what they may believe and perhaps makes sense. If they do, then possibly the chain of similar belief will link more people together in the same beliefs and if people actually live by those beliefs and do not try to FORCE others to have the same belief, then maybe more people will take them up, by choice and the world may become a better place.

    What I see are religious/spiritual/agnostic/atheist/secular/people of all beliefs in too many numbers, claiming to believe in love, peace and harmony out of one side of their mouths then calling to hate. restrict, bar, ban other people, not on the individual (harmful to society) deeds of those people, but on some of group identity. An exception might be a group that defines themselves as engaging in things harmful to society and that does not include claiming to make society better, by poisoning the environment or killing people.

    Anyway, I believe human share a lot more of the same basic desires than one might notice with all the tribal divisions we appear to have broken into, in spite of all the human desires humans share, because they're/we're all human!

  3. #23
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    He supports punishing one parent for the crimes of the other parent.
    Come to think of it, he supports punishing one parent with the crimes of the other parent, as well.
    Thanks from labrea

  4. #24
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    From the perspective of the rape victim, I would suspect that is actually a pretty common view. Yeah. That's kinda the point. Most women who are raped would like nothing more than to put the event as far in their rearview mirror as possible. The vast majority would, I rather suspect, prefer not to be forced to look at an 18-year reminder of their most horrifying, humiliating, painful life event. Particularly if the monster comes out, and grows up to look like rapist daddy. Oh, and in many states, here's the real kicker; you have the kid, and your rapist gets parental rights. That's right, Rape Daddy gets to sue you for visitation. So, not only do you have this rape spawn staring up at you for 18 years reminding you of what happened, but you also get a visit every other weekend from your assaulter to come pick up the kid. Yeah, can't imagine why rape victims would not find the prospect of squeezing out the spawn of their rapist as something that's "beautiful".

    Now, I'm sure you're gonna rush off to the interweb to find some anecdotal example of some woman who kept her rape baby, and is happy to expound about what a blessing the child was, blah, blah, blah. To which I would reply, "So, what?" I didn't say every woman. I said "pretty common", "most women", "the vast majority". So, some anecdotal outlier in no way invalidates my suspicion.
    I didn't ask about the mother, I asked about the child.

    Is it a beautiful child regardless of how it was conceived.

    Is it the child's fault?

    Would you not allow your children to play with it because it was a product of rape?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    He supports not punishing Childern for the crimes of one of their parents. Sounds pretty Christian to me.
    What makes you think the children born of rape aren't punished for the sin of the rapist?

    "As psychologist Andrew Solomon writes in his book, Far From the Tree, children conceived of rape are more likely to suffer from severe psychological disorders, the most common of which are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety.

    They face many challenges both before and after birth. Research shows that maternal stress severely affects embryological development. Many women who are raped opt to take antidepressants to help them cope, which can harm the fetus."

    Children Born of Rape Face a Painful Legacy ? The Trauma & Mental Health Report

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    He supports punishing one parent for the crimes of the other parent.
    One parent, and the child.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Are you saying that children born from a rape are not beautiful?

    Are they somehow tainted and should we look down upon them?
    Conservatives have no problem looking down on the children of the poor, and have no problem keeping them in dangerous environments that offer few opportunities, so you sudden concern for children conceived in rape rings hollow.

    The Truth About How Mom's Stress Affects Baby's Brain

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Not to mention genetics, that baby may well grow up to be a rapist himself.
    In the case of stranger rape, the kid could grow to be a violent individual.
    It isn't uncommon for children conceived in rape to feel they are tainted by the fathers genes.

  9. #29
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    I didn't ask about the mother, I asked about the child.

    Is it a beautiful child regardless of how it was conceived.

    Is it the child's fault?

    Would you not allow your children to play with it because it was a product of rape?
    Is rape a "beautiful thing" in your mind? How about FORCING a rape victim to be pregnant until the "child" can either be safely surgically removed by the control freaks that only seem to care about the UNBORN or the fetus is carried to term, the NATURAL GOD GIVEN signal, that it is time for a fetus to be BORN as a separate individual, called a child, with which the state or the mother can then give away to people who will PROFIT monetarily (oh, yes, they "care" (not about the child, but the BUCKS) from facilitating an adoption or put into a foster home or state facility until they can be adopted, if ever they are.

    It's BS. Until a child is separate from the womb, it is NOT born and until it IS born, it IS a part of the mother and since a fetus is not viable without artificial assistance before a certain time and even at the SCIENTIFICALLY decided time, not totally viable, even WITH artificial assistance. Why don't all the people so worried about "beautiful" unborn fetuses care as much for the children that people actually WANT to have, but cannot afford to feed? Why is it the same people that want to force women to be pregnant against their will, are many of the same people that voted for the guy that just cut off funds for all kinds of people that need assistance and who have "beautiful" children?????

    IT's BS!!

    They don't care about the unborn "beautiful" or not and the proof is how much they care for the children that go hungry in the world daily, while they vote for a narcissistic greddy gluttonous billionare adulterer man that costs the nation's tax payers millions of EXTRA dollars, because he needs to be surrounded by one of his own personal palaces, to conduct the nation's (and his personal) business, instead of using the "shappy", old White House".
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 4th April 2017 at 08:41 PM.
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  10. #30
    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    While there seems some practical and common sense and secular reasons to believe in what some human beings wrote about the existence of someone who taught good lessons for humans to live side by side in peace and harmony by (observant people, religious or not, recognize universal values, based on observation of cause and effect and study of the history of humankind), there seems another, almost masochistic and sadistic segment of the human population that seems to think their religions are about forcing other human beings, in cruel ways and lacking any ethic of reciprocity.


    "Oklahoma lawmaker defends pregnancy from rape and incest as ‘beauty from ashes’"

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.82107e7bf75e

    It makes you wonder if people that appear to twist things in these sorts of ways, are trying to defend or justify their own behavior.

    "America Has an Incest Problem"
    https://www.theatlantic.com/national...roblem/272459/

    Women made pregnant by their Uncle Drool Bob aren't going to report their reason for wanting an abortion as "raped by father (brother or uncle)" and why should they suffer carrying the product of a crime within them for 9 months?

    There is another reason some do not like women being able to choose to be pregnant or not.

    "The problem is that adoption is a business, a big business. There is lots of money to be had by those who make their living from the transferring of parental rights from one party to another. If adoption was truly a societal need, then there wouldn’t be such profits to be had."
    The Truth About the Adoption Industry | Adoption & Birth Mothers*
    The only warping and twisting going on here is what you are doing. You cannot declare how others are to act and respond to their faith from an ignorant and skewed perspective.

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