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Thread: Where does this sort of "Chistianity" come from???????

  1. #41
    Member Iolo's Avatar
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    I think that it is pretty pointless to talk about 'Christianity' as if it were one thing, and it seems to me that what is called Christianity depends hugely on the social circumstances in which it occurs, so that, for instance, feudalism produces a form of Roman Catholicism in which dead 'saints' are seen as influencial gangsters with the ability to have a word with the godfather on behalf of their own gang. American Christianity, unlike most forms, is deeply permeated with racism and the notion of 'success', so that it differs almost totally from what we find in the New Testament. I was struck, watching a series of programmes on Sianel Pedwar Cymru about the American Civil War written by our people in our language, to discover just how deeply racist even the North was. Did you know, for instance, why so many 'black' people have 'Welsh' surnames? And no, it wasn't because many of us owned plantations - it was because very few chaplains from the Union Army were prepared to minister to ex-slave congregations, whereas our people always were, so that the liberated people took their temporary pastor's name. My own view is that a very early, revolutionary statement of early socialism somehow survived amongst different sorts of bosses who believed the exact opposite for all those hundreds of years - a rather remarkable evidence of human two-facedness!

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    I didn't ask about the mother, I asked about the child.

    Is it a beautiful child regardless of how it was conceived.

    Is it the child's fault?

    Would you not allow your children to play with it because it was a product of rape?
    No, You asked about the perception of "the child". And the only perception that matters is the woman who was raped. Whether you think the spawn of a rapist is beautiful, or not, is immaterial - unless you happen to be the woman pregnant by her attacker. The only perception that matters is that of the rape victim. Beauty is subjective. I'm sure you heard the adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? Well, in this case, I rather doubt that the rape victim that you want to force to carry the spawn of her rapist agrees with your assessment.

    Sorry, your argument fails.

  3. #43
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
    I think that it is pretty pointless to talk about 'Christianity' as if it were one thing, and it seems to me that what is called Christianity depends hugely on the social circumstances in which it occurs, so that, for instance, feudalism produces a form of Roman Catholicism in which dead 'saints' are seen as influencial gangsters with the ability to have a word with the godfather on behalf of their own gang. American Christianity, unlike most forms, is deeply permeated with racism and the notion of 'success', so that it differs almost totally from what we find in the New Testament. I was struck, watching a series of programmes on Sianel Pedwar Cymru about the American Civil War written by our people in our language, to discover just how deeply racist even the North was. Did you know, for instance, why so many 'black' people have 'Welsh' surnames? And no, it wasn't because many of us owned plantations - it was because very few chaplains from the Union Army were prepared to minister to ex-slave congregations, whereas our people always were, so that the liberated people took their temporary pastor's name. My own view is that a very early, revolutionary statement of early socialism somehow survived amongst different sorts of bosses who believed the exact opposite for all those hundreds of years - a rather remarkable evidence of human two-facedness!
    I don't know if there is an "American Christianity" anymore than one could lump all the Christians in their own nation as being the same. Just as there are "ugly" people (and I do not mean physical appearance, but inwardly) and "Ugly Americans" (oblivious to the existence of anyone, but themselves and their micro culture) there also seem to be "Ugly Christians" with their "Christianity" perhaps warped and twisted by provincial "leaders" and insecurities about anything outside the neighborhood/region or a means of maintaining manipulative control over a local population by mini-theocracies, where the local "church" has almost as much or more "authority" to condemn, if only socially, as any secular government. I don't believe Christianity is alone in that, but since Christianity is the religion most claimed by Americans and in the world and this OP is focused on Christian "beliefs", the discussion of other religions and cultures can be done on another thread.

    As I have been trying to point out, there are many many versions of Christianity and in many ways it is somewhat surprising that there is even a reference to any base religion named Christianity, but for their claims to "believe" in Christ's existence and as their savior and perhaps to believe in some translation, interpretation of the books of the Bible. Beyond that, it seems it is a free for all more of disassociation from one another than association as it seems as if as many or perhaps more sought their own "division" and specific way of believing that was separate from others, than sought unity of belief. "Christianity" might well be described as anyone that claims to believe in Christ's existence, the books of the Bible and his teachings. It is some measure of proof (as in the pudding) as to the extent of their "belief" that seems to divide Christians from hypocrites that simply claim to be Christian (perhaps for some ulterior motive) yet, do little or nothing in action that aligns with what they claim to believe, by simple connection to the scripture they claim to believe in, placed next to their actions.

    The following does not, in all honesty, describe a unity of belief, but more a massive quarrel about what and how to believe and unfortunately, very bloody quarrels that many humans have lost their lives over, throughout human history. While one may accept many nuanced differences that could mean a separate "title" to identify those that take on that specific set of beliefs, it seems very difficult to dismiss (in one believes them at all or simply reads them) passages in the Bible, supposedly written by human beings as testament to the existence and teachings of Christ, when they are corroborated and essentially say the same thing, making it difficult to twist and turn them as some seem to, into saying the complete opposite.

    Christianity: history, beliefs, practices, etc.


    Granted, that some titles listed may not necessarily describe a difference (even nuanced different religion) in belief format from all others, but may be an organizational and identity sort of difference, but still, one can see the huge number of titled organized "churches" of "Christ" that do not appear to describe what one might call, a unity of thought and identity.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ber_of_members
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 5th April 2017 at 11:23 AM.

  4. #44
    Member Iolo's Avatar
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    I think that, basically, nobody who believed in what is put forward in Mark and Acts could be a racist, persecute others, take part in wars or believe in 'competition'. Certainly some of the early Quakers in America might claim to be Christians (but hardly such later Quaker products as Nixon), and doubtless one or two in other denominations, but can you actually touch filth without being defiled? Competition and racism were central to the American system from the start, whereas in other places they were an intermittent disease, and in America there wasn't any monasticism or such to relieve the pressure, so I think what the US has ended up with is actually a very uninstructed and nasty form of Judaism.
    Last edited by Iolo; 6th April 2017 at 04:24 AM.

  5. #45
    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    Are you trying to suggest someone can find all kinds of examples of your tolerance, love and compassion in your postings on this website? Are you claiming to follow Christ? If so, where are you doing so?

    Your disdain of "liberals" is what? Tolerance, love and compassion? "Liberals" don't run around talking about, their religious values and how the world has gone to hell and a hand basket because of someone else's sins, they are not supported with great fanfare and publicity by groupings like the "moral majority" (adultery is moral?) or the "Christian Right", they don't boast of their piety, even as they cheat on their spouses and criticize efforts to help people cannot help themselves or need temporary assistance. No, Democrats/liberals are not perfect or more moral, they just don't claim to be something they are NOT. like so many "Christian conservatives" do when they elect someone who admitted to committing adultery, lives a greedy gluttonous lifestyle, is vain and vindictive/vengeful, even as they stand behind the same man they elect and smile as he signs bills that gut efforts to help other human beings.

    If you truly believe that no humans, much less Christ's/God see what is going on, then perhaps you and all others that do so, may find out something different, when you meet your maker, that is, if you even really believe in Christ's/God and just aren't using a claim to be "Christian" as a front for con artistry or a means to LORD over others, to somehow empower yourself, when you otherwise feel powerless.

    No one has problems with Christians who keep their faith and beliefs between themselves and God, because they are NOT in someone else's face about creating secular laws, like making abortion illegal (a law which might be signed by an adulterer (a greedy, gluttonous, vain, vengeful and lying "Christian" in the White House).
    or signed somewhere by someone who voted for an adulterer, (etc. etc.), in order to "satisfy" their "religious" conscience. Many or most of those Christians live according to what they claim are their beliefs. One does not have to have a PhD in language or a theology degree to read and comprehend, even partly, the passages below and compare them to the actions of people who claim to be Christian and who elected someone like our current President and the actions of the current President, and see, they don't align or add up.

    The BS and hypocrisy are palpable.

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/refugees

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/giving

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/enemies

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/narcissism

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/humility

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/adultery
    Thank you for proving my point.

    You don't understand the faith, yet you thnk you can declare how Christians are supposed to behave...while you spew hate filled rants about hatred.

    Still believing that love is agreement.

    Silly, silly lib. I don't hate liberals...I hate their hypocrisy, their behavior(s) ("don't tell us how to live" while preaching about how Christians should keep quiet and do what liberals say they should do).

    Notice how you skip the scriptures about living in the world but not to follow the world in it's twisted ways.
    Last edited by carpe diem; 6th April 2017 at 06:44 AM.

  6. #46
    Veteran Member carpe diem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo View Post
    I think that, basically, nobody who believed in what is put forward in Mark and Acts could be a racist, persecute others, take part in wars or believe in 'competition'. Certainly some of the early Quakers in America might claim to be Christians (but hardly such later Quaker products as Nixon), and doubtless one or two in other denominations, but can you actually touch filth without being defiled? Competition and racism were central to the American system from the start, whereas in other places they were an intermittent disease, and in America there wasn't any monasticism or such to relieve the pressure, so I think what the US has ended up with is actually a very uninstructed and nasty form of Judaism.
    Thank you for openly revealing your ignorance.

  7. #47
    Member Iolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpe diem View Post
    Thank you for openly revealing your ignorance.
    I keep trying, but who could compete with you, child? It is interesting to me how personal offensiveness of that kind marks your highest intellectual efforts - mostly you thick buggers stick to racist insults about origins. God bless America!
    Last edited by Iolo; 7th April 2017 at 04:39 AM.

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