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Thread: Can a billion people be wrong?

  1. #41
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    The Bible also refers several times to the four corners of the Earth. While the original Hebrew word for "corners" could also refer more generally to "extremities", there are no such extremities within the perimeter of a circle.
    If you are at or near the center of a circle, wouldn't the extremities be the edge of the circle?

  2. #42
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    We can't all be wrong.

    All different races, social status, gay, straight, tall, short, evil, good, man woman, child adult.....

    How does a group of people with no experience with others, a tribe on a lone island, worship a god that is basically the same as all the other major gods out there?

    How?

    It doesn't matter what name they have given Him, it matters that he is there.
    There are literally thousands of "Gods" which have been created within the minds of men, and most of them have no resemblance whatsoever to the others. Were there actually a cohesive, universal concept of "God" among all of humanity, then you'd have a much better argument to make -- but there isn't, so you don't.
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  3. #43
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    If you are at or near the center of a circle, wouldn't the extremities be the edge of the circle?
    If one is within a circle, then the entire perimeter is the extremity. Where then do the other three "extremities" lie?

  4. #44
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    If one is within a circle, then the entire perimeter is the extremity. Where then do the other three "extremities" lie?
    One where the sun sets, one where it rises, and the other two at the points along the horizon exactly halfway between them. We call them North, South, East, and West today.
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  5. #45
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I understand that, but had the authors known of (perhaps they did know, but didn't believe) the things their Greek neighbors like Pythagoras were writing about and incorporated them, they would have at some pointómaybe not hereóbut somewhere mentioned that the earth was spherical. They wouldn't have to be making a scientific statement to say something that acknowledges the shape of the Earth. Did they?
    Maybe, but it just isn't relevant to religious literature. They might have mentioned it, or not. It really doesn't matter. Looking to religious literature for scientific truths makes no more sense than looking to science for religious truths.
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  6. #46
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    We can't all be wrong.
    Yes, we can.
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  7. #47
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Maybe, but it just isn't relevant to religious literature. They might have mentioned it, or not. It really doesn't matter. Looking to religious literature for scientific truths makes no more sense than looking to science for religious truths.
    I'm not looking for scientific truths. I agree that would be absurd. I'm looking for evidence of what they believed about the world. That's all, and I think it does matter if you care about things like that. Even the Ancient Greeks had only the barest beginnings of what we would accept as science. For the most part, they didn't believe in doing testing of any kind. Mostly what they did was think about it and write what they thought.

    I'm just curious what they thought. The flat earth model used by the ancient Hebrews is a pretty well studied part of the evolution of cosmology. I'm not interested to point to people and say they were wrong for goodness sake. We're still wrong and we know it. We are getting a bit off topic here, but a big part of why people believed in that and later models of the universe was related to their religious beliefs. I really don't see anything controversial about this.
    Last edited by StanStill; 3rd May 2017 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #48
    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    There are literally thousands of "Gods" which have been created within the minds of men, and most of them have no resemblance whatsoever to the others. Were there actually a cohesive, universal concept of "God" among all of humanity, then you'd have a much better argument to make -- but there isn't, so you don't.
    That helps to point out that religion is bullshit. Why would god only provide his message to one region of the world while others get a completely different message? The fact that it is regional, and even within one religion there are many different sects, also points to the fact that religion is bullshit.

    Belief in god in general or being spiritual is a different matter I'm not talking about in the above.
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  9. #49
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I'm not looking for scientific truths. I agree that would be absurd. I'm looking for evidence of what they believed about the world. That's all, and I think it does matter if you care about things like that. Even the Ancient Greeks had only the barest beginnings of what we would accept as science. For the most part, they didn't believe in doing testing of any kind. Mostly what they did was think about it and write what they thought.

    I'm just curious what they thought. The flat earth model used by the ancient Hebrews is a pretty well studied part of the evolution of cosmology. I'm not interested to point to people and say they were wrong for goodness sake. We're still wrong and we know it. We are getting a bit off topic here, but a big part of why people believed in that and later models of the universe to was related to their religious beliefs. I really don't see anything controversial about this.
    I don't see anything controversial about a primitive people with no capacity for flight to maintain a concept of a flat earth, based only upon their limited observations of their environment. Going out to sea is probably the first time that early humans observed anything to make them think that perhaps they occupied a spherical earth, rather than one which was basically flat.

  10. #50
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I'm not looking for scientific truths. I agree that would be absurd. I'm looking for evidence of what they believed about the world. That's all, and I think it does matter if you care about things like that. Even the Ancient Greeks had only the barest beginnings of what we would accept as science. For the most part, they didn't believe in doing testing of any kind. Mostly what they did was think about it and write what they thought.

    I'm just curious what they thought. The flat earth model used by the ancient Hebrews is a pretty well studied part of the evolution of cosmology. I'm not interested to point to people and say they were wrong for goodness sake. We're still wrong and we know it. We are getting a bit off topic here, but a big part of why people believed in that and later models of the universe to was related to their religious beliefs. I really don't see anything controversial about this.
    I understand. What I am trying to say (I must be having one of those days...) is that these religious works are unlikely to truly reveal what they believed about the (presumably phenomenal?) world. I am imagining individuals such as Yeshayahu (Isaiah) would have spoken in idioms just as we do today.

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