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Thread: Could I just get a straight answer from our local Fundamentalist/Evang Christians?

  1. #31
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    This is a PERSONAL OPINION question....not looking for "demoninational authority". I don't expect the Southern Baptist Council representative to be here or an official spokesman for the Vatican.

    I'm interested in what Fund/Evang Christians ON THIS BOARD believe.
    Good luck with that.

  2. #32
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    It's a paradox for them.

    Either they say "No, only Christians go to Heaven"...i.e Jews go to Hell, even the righteous adherent Jews...

    which means God has BROKEN his Covenant with the Jews.



    Or they say "Yes, Jews can get into Heaven as Jews" which contradicts "None come to the Father, but by me"....

    occasionally they try "Jews get ONE MORE CHANCE to accept Christ after they die".....to which the immediate question becomes "Okay, so why don't Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or even atheists get ONE MORE CHANCE to accept Christ after they die"?

    Faced with a paradox, they'll likely dodge, deflect, and try to change the subject...as usual.


    ((Actually, the likely answer to my Subject Line Question will be....."No, you can't get a straight answer" ))
    Jeremiah 31:31-34English Standard Version (ESV)

    The New Covenant
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    The Jews already broke the Covenant with God, so he provided a New Covenant as described in Jeremiah. If you believe Jeremiah is a prophet of God , then Jews should be obeying the New Covenant as described because the Old Covenant is history. How God will judge Jews is for him to decide. I believe Jews will come around eventually like many have already and follow the New Covenant and be obedient to God

  3. #33
    Southern Strategy Liberal OldGaffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Jeremiah 31:31-34English Standard Version (ESV)

    The New Covenant
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    The Jews already broke the Covenant with God, so he provided a New Covenant as described in Jeremiah. If you believe Jeremiah is a prophet of God , then Jews should be obeying the New Covenant as described because the Old Covenant is history. How God will judge Jews is for him to decide. I believe Jews will come around eventually like many have already and follow the New Covenant and be obedient to God
    How about the 6 million Hitler killed, are they doomed to hell for not accepting the New Covenant before they were gassed and cremated?
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and Friday13

  4. #34
    ~Standing My Ground~ Sassy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    It's a paradox for them.

    Either they say "No, only Christians go to Heaven"...i.e Jews go to Hell, even the righteous adherent Jews...

    which means God has BROKEN his Covenant with the Jews.



    Or they say "Yes, Jews can get into Heaven as Jews" which contradicts "None come to the Father, but by me"....

    occasionally they try "Jews get ONE MORE CHANCE to accept Christ after they die".....to which the immediate question becomes "Okay, so why don't Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or even atheists get ONE MORE CHANCE to accept Christ after they die"?

    Faced with a paradox, they'll likely dodge, deflect, and try to change the subject...as usual.


    ((Actually, the likely answer to my Subject Line Question will be....."No, you can't get a straight answer" ))
    That sums it up! My brother used to say that Jews can't go to heaven, but he now decided since HE likes Jews, that they do.

    BUT, he has his teachings wrong. Everyone has the chance to come to Jesus. IDK how a Muslim or a Jew are supposed to know they 'should' but supposedly they are all given the chance.

    He reminded me the other day never to take the mark of the beast, even for food. I guess he assumes I will be left behind. Have to prove myself. *rolls eyes*

  5. #35
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    How about the 6 million Hitler killed, are they doomed to hell for not accepting the New Covenant before they were gassed and cremated?
    I don't really know. Only God knows that. The blame should be on the teachers that don't listen to Gods prophet Jeremiah, not the people themselves. They are just doing what they are told to believe.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Both Purgatory and Limbo are unique to the Catholics. Protestants don't accept these concepts.
    Equally well I keep running into more and more protestants who say that there is nothing about hell in the bible, that it was an invention of the church in the middle ages or before in order to provide a stick to go along with the carrot of heaven.

    I first ran into that when it was being discussed at the annual General Council. There was a strong movement to say that hell is in fact just the empty state of not being in the presence of god or whatever.

    That was about when I gave up on religion so don't know if it was accepted or not.
    Thanks from Friday13

  7. #37
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    The Jews already broke the Covenant with G-d, so he provided a New Covenant as described in Jeremiah.
    That does not even make any sense. Quit attacking Jews in these pitiful attempts to make Xianity look correct under the Jewish scriptures. It does not work. Your position makes no sense no matter how many threads you cut-and-paste the same stuff into.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    If you believe Jeremiah is a prophet of G-d , then Jews should be obeying the New Covenant as described because the Old Covenant is history.
    G-d does not abrogate His covenants, or relegate them to the dustbin of history, as you would have Him do. G-d neither breaks His word nor changes His mind.

    But since you mention it ... yes, if your interpretation were correct, you would think the religious Jews would come around first. That we have not, and continue to resist (even unto death) assimilation into Xianity suggests that you are wrong. We know Judaism better than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I believe Jews will come around eventually like many have already and follow the New Covenant and be obedient to G-d.
    There will always be Jews who practice Judaism and know that Xianity is - at best - wrong about the Tanakh. Especially as they only believe the convenient parts anyway.
    Thanks from Friday13

  8. #38
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    The blame [for the Holocaust] should be on the teachers that don't listen to G-ds prophet Jeremiah, not the people themselves. They are just doing what they are told to believe.
    Quit attacking Jews for practicing Judaism and rebuffing Xianity as being contrary to the Torah. Because it is. And now you are blaming the Holocaust on religious Jews who teach Judaism instead of Xianity? Something is seriously wrong with you.

  9. #39
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That does not even make any sense. Quit attacking Jews in these pitiful attempts to make Xianity look correct under the Jewish scriptures. It does not work. Your position makes no sense no matter how many threads you cut-and-paste the same stuff into.


    G-d does not abrogate His covenants, or relegate them to the dustbin of history, as you would have Him do. G-d neither breaks His word nor changes His mind.

    But since you mention it ... yes, if your interpretation were correct, you would think the religious Jews would come around first. That we have not, and continue to resist (even unto death) assimilation into Xianity suggests that you are wrong. We know Judaism better than you do.


    There will always be Jews who practice Judaism and know that Xianity is - at best - wrong about the Tanakh. Especially as they only believe the convenient parts anyway.
    Jews broke the Covenant while in the Egyptian Desert with Moses, this is why the Jews wandered lost in the desert for 40 years. God did not want those that broke the Covenant in the promised land. Most had died off after 40 years and then proceeded in what is now Israel. You just don't get it, but one day I know all Jews will realize there is a New Covenant, by the revelation from God

  10. #40
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Quit attacking Jews for practicing Judaism and rebuffing Xianity as being contrary to the Torah. Because it is. And now you are blaming the Holocaust on religious Jews who teach Judaism instead of Xianity? Something is seriously wrong with you.
    Jeremiah doesn't speak of the New Testament, he speaks of the New Covenant. If he didn't say anything about it, then point out where i am wrong

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