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Thread: Eternity in Heaven...

  1. #11
    quichierbichen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    Perhaps I missed something in this heaven or hell bargain. What exactly goes to these places once we die? There is no evidence of a soul, no sign of retained memories or intelligence or consciousness after death so isn't this just a timeless desire by living humans to survive death? Almost every primitive society that ever existed believed in some form of afterlife, that does not make it so.
    Indeed. In the translated words of an ancient Persian poet:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
    Strange, is it not? that of the myriads who
    Before us pass'd the door of Darkness through,
    Not one returns to tell us of the Road,
    Which to discover we must travel too.
    Thanks from Friday13, Leo2 and Claudius the God

  2. #12
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    I think forgiveness can be a form of virtue signaling...'look at how wonderful and complete I am'. Which is insincere. I guess 'true forgiveness' exists, but in my estimations, some things are simply unforgivable, and it seems presumptuous and cruel to demand it as a condition of getting past the velvet ropes.

    The raped and murdered don't have a chance to forgive, but presumably they'll chance upon their repented victimizer in heaven (prisons are full of people who've presumably secured their spot). Awkward.

    Maybe there's a lobby. Maybe the people who weren't given a chance to forgive their victimizer while alive can work through it to the point of sincerity before entering.
    Last edited by webrockk; 11th June 2017 at 12:49 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    I think forgiveness can be a form of virtue signaling...'look at how wonderful and complete I am'. Which is insincere. I guess 'true forgiveness' exists, but in my estimations, some things are simply unforgivable, and it seems presumptuous and cruel to demand it as a condition of getting past the velvet ropes.
    Except that the public performance of forgiveness isn't the point. If someone outwardly says they forgive someone but internally they don't, their statements of forgiveness are a lie.

    The raped and murdered don't have a chance to forgive, but presumably they'll chance upon their repented victimizer in heaven (prisons are full of people who've presumably secured their spot). Awkward.
    I'm not going to argue theolology with you about "secured spots." I think the idea is that the change in perspective that comes with being released from our earthly bodies and being connected to the ultimate makes anything that happened in our lives pale in comparison to the life to come--which will be entirely different.

    Maybe there's a lobby. Maybe the people who weren't given a chance to forgive their victimizer while alive can work through it to the point of sincerity before entering.
    Dunno. Boethius had some interesting things to say about time--comparing our temporal perceptions and the transcendent perspective of God.

    Whatever our public performances, God judges the heart, which is revealed to no one else.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Loki's Avatar
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    Let me save you some time. There is no afterlife at all.
    Once the the heart stops beating, the brain has little time before it too, dies. That's it, lights out.
    The only thinking that has a heaven in it, is convoluted. Whose allowed, whose not.
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  5. #15
    Veteran Member Devil505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGaffer View Post
    I am a dust to dust guy myself, no quandaries or magic involved
    I believe death is just like what is was like b4 you were conceived......ie nothing.
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  6. #16
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    So, I reluctantly logged on Facebook to wish an extended family member happy birthday (those annoying notifications pop in whether logged on or not, so I can't escape the feeling of guilt for forgetting birthdays. Thanks, Zuckerberg. asshole) and was briefly sucked into 'the scroll'. Anyway, someone I don't know (my page is full of people I don't know) had lost a family member and posted a heartfelt memorial, and of course their circle were extending condolences. Standard fare, including the comforting reminder that "we'll be with them again forever in Heaven"

    which got my quirky brain to thinking...

    What do people who suffered physical, psychological or sexual abuse at the hands of deceased family members do when they die and go to heaven? Are the abused and abusers forced to awkwardly endure each other's presence....for eternity?

    It's my understanding that the abusers can toss the 'Get Out Of Hell Free' card by repenting their sins, so I can only presume those who do will be granted access.
    here is more to bend your brain over...

    to which "heaven" and "eternal" to do your refer to? I am rather sure the christian heaven is not going to have a muslim fucking his 72 virgins there. I am rather sure no christian will make it into islam heaven... no infidels allowed.

    i have to say, there is some comfort in thinking that there are a good few people in my life who would never make it to a good after life or heaven. I have no worries in seeing them after i am dead and will love to gloat over their eternal suffering in a hell.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    here is more to bend your brain over...

    to which "heaven" and "eternal" to do your refer to? I am rather sure the christian heaven is not going to have a muslim fucking his 72 virgins there. I am rather sure no christian will make it into islam heaven... no infidels allowed.

    i have to say, there is some comfort in thinking that there are a good few people in my life who would never make it to a good after life or heaven. I have no worries in seeing them after i am dead and will love to gloat over their eternal suffering in a hell.
    It's all so confusing. and a topic I dare not discuss with but a few family members....being "prayed over" makes me uncomfortable. So here we are.
    Last edited by webrockk; 12th June 2017 at 08:37 AM.

  8. #18
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrockk View Post
    It's all so confusing. and a topic I dare not discuss with but a few family members....being "prayed over" makes me uncomfortable. So here we are.
    heh

    one of the questions they ask you in the papers you sign before you have surgery.... who should they send if the need arises. I took out a fat sharpy maker and big bold print..... SEND NO ONE!!!

    what do i find waking up.... a priest at the foot of my bed. I was conscious enough to tell him to get the fuck out of my room.


    here is the question you need to ask yourself.... what do YOU believe? It makes not one bit of difference what anyone else believes.

    I personally dont believe in "going" to an eternal anything...heaven or hell. I believe we are in a continuum and are already in the eternal. Where you are in the continuum and who is with you are those you are closest to in the eternal.
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  9. #19
    Burn it down Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Indeed. In the translated words of an ancient Persian poet:
    Appropos of nothing, this reminds me of something Neil Gaiman wrote. It was a conversation between personifications of Dream and Death (Death took the form of a perky teenage goth girl. Lunchboxxy has her in her avatar).
    Anyways, Death said, "Mostly they aren't too keen to see me. They fear the sunless lands. But they enter your realm each night without fear." To which Dream responds, "And I am far more terrible than you, my sister."
    Thanks from Ian Jeffrey and Friday13

  10. #20
    Burn it down Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syrenn View Post
    here is more to bend your brain over...

    to which "heaven" and "eternal" to do your refer to? I am rather sure the christian heaven is not going to have a muslim fucking his 72 virgins there. I am rather sure no christian will make it into islam heaven... no infidels allowed.

    i have to say, there is some comfort in thinking that there are a good few people in my life who would never make it to a good after life or heaven. I have no worries in seeing them after i am dead and will love to gloat over their eternal suffering in a hell.
    Jesus in John 14:2 "My Father's house has many rooms."
    Thanks from syrenn

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