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Thread: Why doesn’t FFRF go after Muslims?

  1. #1341
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Religious beliefs is based on a fact in Christianity.
    No, it is not, any more than any other religion. It is not a "fact" just because you believe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Christ was on earth, fact.
    Your Jesus was no messiah, and certainly not the Jewish one.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    He is the Redeemer, Fact.
    Opinion. You believing it does not make it a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    G-d gives revelation of those facts and people are changed, fact.
    Belief, not fact.

    You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Nothing you called "fact" is actually a fact. You just believe it.

  2. #1342
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    How can a person be so confused about the difference between a fact and a belief?

    Why do religious beliefs have to be facts? Isn't the whole purpose of religion to inspire you, to help you live a good life, to understand yourself and other people better, to provide perspective and thereby meaning for your life?

    How can people be so blind? Do they honestly think God wants them to be blind, to be so terrified of reality that they just refuse to see it? I think they do. They are so indoctrinated in the belief that questioning the literal truth of Jesus' divinity is a sin for which God will torture you forever. Or whatever religion. Even considering whether or not it is factually true is terrifying to these people. I know plenty of them. Thinking or saying certain things is utterly forbidden to them, as if saying, "Jesus is not God" is a magic spell that will destroy them. They believe that.

    They also believe that if they ask God very respectfully for things, he will wave a wand and give them to them. Maybe. If not, then they may not have been earnest enough when they were casting the spell. Or God just doesn't want that for them.

    Then why the hell are you praying? If God wants to give it to you, he will, and if he doesn't, then he won't, obviously.

    Hilarious:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1g8WCA7mJk

  3. #1343
    Senior Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Its factual to over 2 Billion people. They have all had a revelation that caused a renewing of their minds because the spirit of God is really alive. Mohammed is in his grave, Jesus rose from the grave.
    Facts conform with reality and believing something isn't at all the same thing as knowing it for a fact. No one, especially Christians, are entitled to their own facts, and nothing in the New Testament is a fact.

    Christ was not resurrected. There is no archeological evidence for his grave, and there are no external corroborations to the eye witnesses' claims.

    You are the biggest hypocrite under the sun because you call me arrogant for being 10 times as educated as you, and you think a book of myths is somehow absolute truth.

    If a defendant in court said "Your honor, I'd like to call to the witness stand a giant, invisible rabbit and he has all the evidence proving me innocent....but only I can see and hear him, so I will be transcribing everything he says and does," you wouldn't believe him. Yet that is exactly what the biblical authors did, except they wanted power. They said "we're speaking for a supernatural puppet master in the sky, but only we can see and hear him, so we will be transcribing everything he says and does, and you must bow down to us and kiss our asses or you're going to boil alive in the Lake of Fire."

    Get off the forum. You are not engaging in rational discussion.

  4. #1344
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Facts conform with reality and believing something isn't at all the same thing as knowing it for a fact. No one, especially Christians, are entitled to their own facts, and nothing in the New Testament is a fact.

    Christ was not resurrected. There is no archeological evidence for his grave, and there are no external corroborations to the eye witnesses' claims.

    You are the biggest hypocrite under the sun because you call me arrogant for being 10 times as educated as you, and you think a book of myths is somehow absolute truth.

    If a defendant in court said "Your honor, I'd like to call to the witness stand a giant, invisible rabbit and he has all the evidence proving me innocent....but only I can see and hear him, so I will be transcribing everything he says and does," you wouldn't believe him. Yet that is exactly what the biblical authors did, except they wanted power. They said "we're speaking for a supernatural puppet master in the sky, but only we can see and hear him, so we will be transcribing everything he says and does, and you must bow down to us and kiss our asses or you're going to boil alive in the Lake of Fire."

    Get off the forum. You are not engaging in rational discussion.
    You may be schooled, but you have not had a revelation. Paul the Apostle was an educated Jew that was persecuting Christians. He was responsible for stoning the first martyr Steven that died. Christ confronted Paul and asked him why he was persecuting his followers (this was after he rose from the dead). Paul was temporarily blinded and became the main spokesman for the gospel and planted many churches. Why would an educated Jew (similar to Ian) change his religion and promote the Gospel if it was false?

  5. #1345
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, it is not, any more than any other religion. It is not a "fact" just because you believe it.


    Your Jesus was no messiah, and certainly not the Jewish one.


    Opinion. You believing it does not make it a fact.


    Belief, not fact.

    You are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Nothing you called "fact" is actually a fact. You just believe it.
    You know what a revelation is? Its not always religious, but it can be. Its an awakening to the truth

  6. #1346
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Why would an educated Jew (similar to Ian) change his religion and promote the Gospel if it was false?
    Aside from the fact that one person does not make a truth, the evidence of Paul's "education" seems to be a wide exposure to Greek philosophy, which seem to be the source of his teachings and subsequent self-conversion. Thus, it is logical to conclude his education focused more on Hellenism than Judaism.

  7. #1347
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You know what a revelation is? Its not always religious, but it can be. Its an awakening to the truth.
    It does not matter what you call it, it matters what it is. And it is still faith and belief, not fact. Substance over form.

  8. #1348
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You may be schooled, but you have not had a revelation. Paul the Apostle was an educated Jew that was persecuting Christians. He was responsible for stoning the first martyr Steven that died. Christ confronted Paul and asked him why he was persecuting his followers (this was after he rose from the dead). Paul was temporarily blinded and became the main spokesman for the gospel and planted many churches. Why would an educated Jew (similar to Ian) change his religion and promote the Gospel if it was false?
    You might want to listen to Bart Ehrman, he can educate you on the veracity of the Bible in terms of its historicity. He is all over YouTube.

  9. #1349
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Aside from the fact that one person does not make a truth, the evidence of Paul's "education" seems to be a wide exposure to Greek philosophy, which seem to be the source of his teachings and subsequent self-conversion. Thus, it is logical to conclude his education focused more on Hellenism than Judaism.
    Paul’s Training

    Paul was said to be one of the most brilliant men of his day and not just by the early church leaders and historians. He was a fierce apologist, as evidenced by his witnessing to the Jews and the Greeks (or Gentiles). Paul said, “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day” (Acts 22:3) and this, “according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day” (Acts 22:4). Paul added “I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. It is with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead that I am on trial” (Acts 23:6). The Pharisees were experts in the Law of God and so Paul knew it as well as anyone among the Jews but probably more so as he excelled above them all, “being zealous” so Paul must have known Hebrew. This is confirmed elsewhere in Scripture where we read that Paul spoke to the crowd in the Hebrew tongue (Acts 21:40; 22:2) but apparently understood Greek too (Acts 21:37-38). The conclusion is that Paul was fluent in at least two languages (probably more) and had become an expert in the law of God (Scripture), having been trained in the strictest of manners, much like he did under Gamaliel. Gamaliel is considered one of the greatest teachers of all time, but who was Gamaliel? Was it important for Paul to study under him? What was it that Gamaliel taught Paul?

    Who was Gamaliel?

    Paul touches on his training in Acts 22:3 by mentioning that he was “brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel” (Acts 22:3) but who was Gamaliel? Acts 5:34 says there was “a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.” Gamaliel was the greatest of the teachers of the Pharisees, perhaps of all time, because he was said to have known the law at a doctorate level, so it was with great wisdom that he told the council when the apostles were brought before them for preaching the gospel, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men” (Acts 5:35) for “in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice” (Acts 5:38-39). That comment displayed some of the great wisdom of Gamaliel, similar to that of the Wisdom of Solomon. Since no one could argue with Gamaliel’s logic, “they took his advice.” Gamaliel was the same man that the Apostle Paul had studied under and in the strictest manner possible, so Paul also much have reached a doctorate level much like his teacher Gamaliel and later, may have even surpassed him intellectually. It took the Damascus Road experience for Paul to see what true, godly wisdom was, and it changed his entire life’s purpose and forever altered the course of human history (Rom 10:9-13).


    Read more at Where Did The Apostle Paul Get His Training?

  10. #1350
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius the God View Post
    You might want to listen to Bart Ehrman, he can educate you on the veracity of the Bible in terms of its historicity. He is all over YouTube.
    Ok, thanks, I will check him out.

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