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Thread: Why doesn’t FFRF go after Muslims?

  1. #1621
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That does not make sense. One shoehorns things into other things, not out of them. In any case, Jesus was not in any prophecy ever made in the first place, so no effort to remove him is needed. He could not have been the moshiach without rewriting the Torah, and no one gets to do that, much as Xians like you have tried.


    It is irrelevant. Many people were born in Bethlehem - or "Beit-lechem," i.e., house of bread - that were not the moshiach. In fact, all of them so far were not the moshiach.
    Jesus was born in Bethlehem, you can't shoe horn that out of the prophecy and say lots of people were born in Bethlehem and dismiss it. Very illogical

  2. #1622
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
    So what? So were thousands of other people, and none of them was the moshiach, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    [Y]ou can't shoe horn that out of the prophecy and say lots of people were born in Bethlehem and dismiss it. Very illogical.
    Aside from the fact that you do not seem to know what a shoehorn is ... yes, I can, and it is logical. You are asserting that "Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and therefore was the moshiach," and that is not logical.
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  3. #1623
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    So what? So were thousands of other people, and none of them was the moshiach, either.


    Aside from the fact that you do not seem to know what a shoehorn is ... yes, I can, and it is logical. You are asserting that "Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and therefore was the moshiach," and that is not logical.
    I said Jesus was born in Bethlehem, I didn't say he was the moshiach, you said he couldn't be, despite him being born in Bethlehem. You have a preconceived notion that nothing can be true even though it is. You might as well say he can't be born in Bethlehem while you are at it and show your complete ignorance

  4. #1624
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I said Jesus was born in Bethlehem, I didn't say he was the moshiach...
    You always say he is. To claim anything else now would be beyond disingenuous.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    [Y]ou said [Jesus] couldn't be [the moshiach], despite him being born in Bethlehem.
    That is correct. Lots of other people were born in Bethlehem, and none of them is the moshiach, either. Or are you claiming no one else was born there?

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You have a preconceived notion that nothing can be true...
    No, I do not. You have preconceived notions about the moshiach that contradict the Torah, and that is not possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You might as well say he can't be born in Bethlehem while you are at it and show your complete ignorance.
    I do not need to. It is irrelevant that he was born there, because it is not only possible to be born in Bethlehem and not be the moshiach, it is more probable than not, considering all the others who were born there who also are not the moshiach.
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  5. #1625
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Jesus was born in Bethlehem, you can't shoe horn that out of the prophecy and say lots of people were born in Bethlehem and dismiss it. Very illogical
    A shoehorn is used to ease something (a foot) into a tight space. (a shoe) it doesn't work in reverse. Your grasp of the realty of shoehorning is tenuous as usual. Are you Russian?
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  6. #1626
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You are asserting no historical evidence is true, hence you end up arguing that nothing is true by assumption. A guy named Lee Strobel was an investigative reporter that tried to prove the evidence was false because his wife became a Christian. He was trying to rescue his wife from what he thought was a false religion. Strobel was an Atheist that set out to prove her faith wrong. He wrote a book called a "Case for Christ" about twenty years ago, a movie of that book just came out this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_for_Christ. At least this atheist looked into the evidence rather then doing what you do , is to dismiss all evidence without even looking into it. I thought Critical thinking skills would cause you to do that.
    If you read my other post, I did in fact look into all of the historical evidence, the little that exists.

    -Josephus' one, sporadic paragraph about Christ's resurrection is a proven forgery.

    -Tacitus wrote about a Jesus Christ, but the lack of archaeological evidence for Christ's tomb and Christ's cross that he was allegedly nailed to and Christ's body that should have puncture marks on his wrists and hands does not attest Tacitus' assertion. It'd be like if I wrote down "I deposited 100 dollars into my local credit union" on a piece of notebook paper, but the credit union's records don't say I did and there is not 100 dollars more in my bank account, I can't attest my claim.

    -The Holy Bible says Christ was crucified and resurrected. But the book does not prove itself, and it was written by people who sat down and recalled everything in it several decades after the events allegedly took place. There is no way to prove anything supernatural, and Christ's resurrection is a supernatural event.

    You make another Non sequitur:

    Premise: Michael J says there is a lack of historical records for Christ's existence and resurrection.
    ------
    Conclusion: Michael J says no historical evidence is true.

    That does not follow.

    Show me Christ's body with puncture marks on the wrists and palms and we'll have something to discuss.

    You continue to use the same deceptive social referencing that advertisers use to scam people into buying a crappy product that they don't need for a higher price. Who cares if an atheist stopped disbelieving in Yahweh and became a Christian. That is like saying 2+2=5 because the Republicans started believing that and a bunch of Democrats started believing that, too and became Republicans.

    What does Mr. Strobel say about the historical evidence for Christ's existence and resurrection? The burden of proof is on you, the aye sayer.
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  7. #1627
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    You have one problem with your thinking. Every piece of history would be dismissed because its not in the present. You couldn't prove John Kennedy was shot because you don't have his body. Same with Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. You wouldn't be able to prove they died because written records don't count, same as the Bible. Pictures can be altered. Your teacher was not exactly a critical thinker. George Washington doesn't exist, no body,
    There is tons of evidence for Martin Luther King's, John Kennedy's, Washington's and Bobby Kennedy's bodies. Their tombs are in the United States with their bodies, and their assassinations were caught on video. Their speeches were all recorded, and they wrote articles and books themselves.

    I never said written records don't count. I said written records need external corroborations.

    Pictures can be altered, but that doesn't mean that the photos of those political leaders actually were. That logical fallacy is called Appeal to Possibility.

    The Holy Bible is anything but an actual written record. It was written by people who sat down several decades after the biblical events allegedly took place. You honestly think that's reliable? You only think that is reliable because your impulses tell you they are. In turn, that caused you to make the same Texas Sharpshooter fallacies incessantly.

    How can you say my teacher wasn't a critical thinker when you don't know one anything about critical thinking? This is evident in the numerous logical fallacies you make.

  8. #1628
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    You honestly think that's reliable?
    He does, because he "believes" it.

  9. #1629
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    You always say he is. To claim anything else now would be beyond disingenuous.


    That is correct. Lots of other people were born in Bethlehem, and none of them is the moshiach, either. Or are you claiming no one else was born there?


    No, I do not. You have preconceived notions about the moshiach that contradict the Torah, and that is not possible.


    I do not need to. It is irrelevant that he was born there, because it is not only possible to be born in Bethlehem and not be the moshiach, it is more probable than not, considering all the others who were born there who also are not the moshiach.
    That was one prophecy that came true you can't change, that's my point. All you can say is many people were born in Bethlehem and ignore the facts.

  10. #1630
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    A shoehorn is used to ease something (a foot) into a tight space. (a shoe) it doesn't work in reverse. Your grasp of the realty of shoehorning is tenuous as usual. Are you Russian?
    Was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Lets see if you can be honest and get this right?

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