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Thread: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

    Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

    Hell is obviously an invention of the church. Universalists Gnostic Christianity and other Universalist Abrahamic cults do not see God as a loser of the souls he calls the light of the world.

    The light of the world does not end in hell.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    As you can see, especially those last two quotes, all are saved without a sacrifice.

    The logic behind Universalism begins with knowing that all souls are created equal. It thus follows that God would treat all souls the same way and would all be given the best possible end due to us being the light of the world and equal. This follows natural law as well as heavenly law as those are never in conflict.

    Look at judging, from Godís point of view, with an example of one we mostly think of as evil, Hitler.

    Hitler would appear before God and as God examines Hitlerís life, he would see that all those Hitler interacted with, and who contributed to what Hitler became, would all have to share the blame and guilt for Hitler becoming the monster we think he was.

    If you take that sound judging logic to itís ultimate end, you will see the logic of either punishing all of us for what we have contributed to evil, or forgive us all for all being exactly what God, if he existed, created us to be.

    Non-Universalist creeds, that have that imaginary religious creation called hell, are trying to appease their own blame and guilt by placing some souls above others even though God would have created us all equal. God unites while religions separate.

    Do you believe God to be a Universalist God, or a God that is such a poor creator that he would have to send his perfectly created souls to eternal punishment instead of just curing them, if required?

    Regards
    DL
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    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Well there's no doubt that the bible describes hell.

    What that hell is though can certainly be interpreted.

    Many believe its the simple separation of you from God.

    Others believe the lake of fire.

    Either way, it won't be good.

    As to your question, this is why god gave us free will.

    He doesn't need us but he wants us.

    You do realize this is a God we are talking about right?

    He offers you love and gives you a choice. If you reject that I don't think he's going to lose much sleep over that.

    Its like a dog pissing on your carpet.

    The first time you warn him, make sure he understands then see what he does. You might take him to some sort of class or something to teach him even.

    You love your dog but you can't afford him to keep ruining your carpet.

    Eventually if the dog keeps doing it, refuses to learn, you will have to take him to the pound.

    Not your choice, it was the dogs choice. You gave him every chance in the world but he refused to listen even though he knew it was wrong.

  3. #3
    Swamper chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Do you believe God to be a Universalist God, or a God that is such a poor creator that he would have to send his perfectly created souls to eternal punishment instead of just curing them, if required?
    Universalism is way too liberal for the M16 toting, militant American Jesus whose heaven is a private club for white folk. These souls are superior and need to be segregated from the takers.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Well there's no doubt that the bible describes hell.

    What that hell is though can certainly be interpreted.

    Many believe its the simple separation of you from God.

    Others believe the lake of fire.

    Either way, it won't be good.

    As to your question, this is why god gave us free will.

    He doesn't need us but he wants us.

    You do realize this is a God we are talking about right?

    He offers you love and gives you a choice. If you reject that I don't think he's going to lose much sleep over that.

    Its like a dog pissing on your carpet.

    The first time you warn him, make sure he understands then see what he does. You might take him to some sort of class or something to teach him even.

    You love your dog but you can't afford him to keep ruining your carpet.

    Eventually if the dog keeps doing it, refuses to learn, you will have to take him to the pound.

    Not your choice, it was the dogs choice. You gave him every chance in the world but he refused to listen even though he knew it was wrong.
    Yet Adam and Eve could not know, without the knowledge that they had yet to gain, that gaining it was wrong. God still punished them without taking the intelligent steps you would for your dog.

    As to free will. Not against sin. Unless you can break my logic trail that is and none have done so to date.

    Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

    That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

    But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

    If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

    Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

    Regards
    DL

  5. #5
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaos View Post
    Universalism is way too liberal for the M16 toting, militant American Jesus whose heaven is a private club for white folk. These souls are superior and need to be segregated from the takers.
    Yes to the thought but no to the color. Have a look as to why you are wrong.



    White, black and all colors in between all love to hate.

    Regards
    DL

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