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Thread: Antichrist: Pope Francis Tells Catholics in Rome That a ‘Personal Relationship’ With

  1. #41
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    No different than the Orthodox Patriarch Kirill in Russia: God's emissary on Earth, all must kiss my hand, whether regional Governor

    lawmakers in the Duma

    even the Muslim leader, Supreme Mufti Talgat Tajuddin

    Acknowledging Kirill's political superiority, no doubt

    Only Putin himself has never kissed the hand.

    In fact, when he meets the high clerics, they kiss HIS hand instead

    I guess he is the real Emissary of God

    Also, some smarter people wonder, if the Patriarch is God's man on Earth, why does he need FSO (Russian Secret Service) bodyguards and bulletproof limos, all at taxpayers expense?



    He should trust in God instead, to protect him and keep him safe

    But, of course he want...

    These religious conmen are all the same lol

  2. #42
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    I'm an atheist, but I have to say I agree with the Pope. Having a "personal relationship with Jesus" is the height of arrogance. "I have direct, personal conversations with the creator of all things, the all knowing, all seeing, all powerful supreme being talks directly TO ME on the DAILY, YO!" That is dangerous. People who think they are that fucking special are first in line to make excuses for why they don't need to actually do all the stuff in the Bible that Christians are supposed to do. They don't need to live a life of humble subsistence, or turn the other cheek. In general, they get to be hypocritical whenever it suits them because after all, THEY TALK TO JESUS DAILY and they are pretty sure that he's cool with it since they are buds.

    I think that's kind of his point. Rather than spend your energy with "your personal Jesus" people who claim to be Christian should spend it trying to live the humble, unencumbered, and charitable life that Jesus advocated, and quit kidding themselves.

    We follow in the teachings of Jesus. Big difference.

  3. #43
    Pundit DemoWhip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    The Pope did not suggest that the Catholic church is above God or Jesus. He merely stated that one needs a faith community in order to have a personal relationship with Jesus. It's fine if you disagree with that, but don't purposely misinterpret what the Pope said.
    It was certainly no misinterpretation. If he did not intend for it to sound that way he should have been unequivocally CLEAR on that and should have made a statement exactly to that effect. To do otherwise is to put church over God which is very wrong. And of course fellowship is important however, fellowship in any church does not equate to salvation that the church cannot give unto man but that only God can. Therefore, make it very clear that God Comes FIRST above church.

  4. #44
    Anarquistador StanStill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemoWhip View Post
    That is the same argument that Satan uses, per the Holy Bible, to try to convince mankind that he does not exist. Only he does! Jesus knows that as the devil tried to tempt Him on the mountain but Jesus cast him aside.
    Satan questions the motivations of obscure websites in the Bible and criticizes them for accusing people of being the Devil? You're going to have to snap out of whatever transe you are in if we are going to have a coherent conversation. Your response seems canned and really has no relation to what I just said.

    It is not hatred but rather pity for a man who was elected to a high position by other men and who consequently believes that he is the vicar of Jesus Christ. He is not. The writing of the word pope in smaller letters thus signifies that he should not be exulted by man to attempt to be made an equal to God which he is most certainly not and can never be. That is sinful to even think that. He is merely a man, a human and the leader of a sect that many do not even believe is Christian-based due to its teachings.

    You might keep on defending man. But I keep on praising and glorifying God through Jesus Christ!
    So you hate that he was elected, and you disregard Jesus' establishment of the papacy beginning with Peter. That's fine. Lots of people don't think the papacy should exist (myself included, but clearly for different reasons than you), but to call the pope the Antichrist is just paranoid absurdity. Don't fundamentalists ever get tired of deciding that some popular figure is the Antichrist? Why don't they ever learn that it never comes to pass?
    Thanks from bajisima and RedCloud

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babba View Post
    The concepts in the Bible are complex and so subject to interpretation that it would mean different things to different people.
    I'd say that is what makes it worthwhile.

  6. #46
    Thought Provocateur NightSwimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemoWhip View Post
    Yes, it has been their doctrine and that is incorrect teaching and a big reason why I left the Catholic Church many years ago. The teachings of the pope are dangerous! Catholics must know and understand that and follow only Jesus Christ and His teachings and not that of the RCC that is not now and has never been above God and Jesus Christ and never will be.
    It's been my experience that Protestant denominations feel the same way toward Catholics, they just try to keep quieter about it these days than they did a few decades ago. Except for yourself, of course. You posted a thread calling the Pope the Antichrist.

    How do you feel about Mormons? Are they real Christians, in your estimation? What about Jehovah's Witnesses? Do you believe that your path to practicing Christianity is the only valid path?

    BTW: To which denomination do you belong?
    Thanks from Babba

  7. #47
    Pundit DemoWhip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    We follow in the teachings of Jesus. Big difference.
    That is very correct! We do follow the teachings of Jesus.

    Since you were replying to a posting that had Depeche Mode in it I thought it would interest you to see the following.

    An open letter to Depeche' Mode (esp Martin Gore)

    One Angry Christian

  8. #48
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemoWhip View Post
    It was certainly no misinterpretation. If he did not intend for it to sound that way he should have been unequivocally CLEAR on that and should have made a statement exactly to that effect. To do otherwise is to put church over God which is very wrong. And of course fellowship is important however, fellowship in any church does not equate to salvation that the church cannot give unto man but that only God can. Therefore, make it very clear that God Comes FIRST above church.
    No one, including the Pope, has argued that the Church is above God. That's your misinterpretation of what he said. The Church has an interpretation of the Bible and in order to be a member of the Church you have to be taught the Church's interpretation. Every religion does that. That's why people choose one religion over another. Because they agree with and accept a particular interpretation of the Bible. It's fine with me if you choose not to agree with the Pope. But he is NOT saying the Church is above God.

    Every Christian, he said, can trace his or her faith back to parents, grandparents, teachers or friends. "I always remember the nun who taught me catechism. I know she's in heaven because she was a holy woman," he said.

    In the Old Testament, the pope said, God called Abraham and began to form a people that would become a blessing for the world. "With great patience -- and God has a lot of it -- he prepared the people of the ancient covenant and in Jesus Christ constituted them as a sign and instrument of the union of humanity with God and unity with one another."

    Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."
    https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/fran...ents-pope-says

    And it's absurd that you keep insisting the Pope is the anti-Christ.

  9. #49
    Cat-tastic Babba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    I'd say that is what makes it worthwhile.
    I'm not advocating that no one should read the Bible for themselves and Church is more liberal about that than when I was kid. But it's important to study it with people who are educated in it. And for the Church that means people who've been educated by the Church.

    I'm just passing on what I know was taught me. You can argue whether it right or wrong, but DemoWhip has misinterpreted what the Church teaches and what the Pope said.

  10. #50
    Pundit DemoWhip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Satan questions the motivations of obscure websites in the Bible and criticizes them for accusing people of being the Devil? You're going to have to snap out of whatever transe you are in if we are going to have a coherent conversation. Your response seems canned and really has no relation to what I just said.
    I never indicated or equivocated a website that you mention with or in context to the Holy Bible. I did present to you the argument that the devil, thus, satan, very much exists and that it is his firm stronghold over people to make them think that he does not. However, he is well known for being the "father of lies." That is where he attempts to take the upper hand if Christians and all others are not astute enough to understand what is happening and how they are being deceived by the devil.


    So you hate that he was elected, and you disregard Jesus' establishment of the papacy beginning with Peter. That's fine. Lots of people don't think the papacy should exist (myself included, but clearly for different reasons than you), but to call the pope the Antichrist is just paranoid absurdity. Don't fundamentalists ever get tired of deciding that some popular figure is the Antichrist? Why don't they ever learn that it never comes to pass?
    Did I ever say that I "hated" that he was elected to that post? No, I merely said that it was MAN who elected him to that chief position not God. That is truth. And there is a great difference between Peter who was one of Jesus' disciples and a pope who wants to put church over God through his clever wording, something that Jesus would obviously never approve of.

    People call it as they see it. When the teachings of Jesus Christ thus, of God, are mixed and reworded to suit the convenience of man and the church then there can be little doubt that that is the work of Anti-Christ.

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