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Thread: Why atheism is a lost cause...

  1. #21
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    The Op seems shocked to discover that debate on PH requires more than an exchange of "fuck you's".

    Ya us.

    Adapt or "go extinct", sir. You have wandered into a thicket of intelligent, thoughtful people.
    That seems to be the limit of his/her debating skills so far.
    Last edited by Dangermouse; 2nd September 2017 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #22
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    I'm still torn between FSM and Phil, the prince of insufficient light.
    British automotive electrics were notoriously unreliable, and the boss of the biggest company, Lucas, became known as the "Prince of Darkness"

    Prince of Darkness - Joseph Lucas ? Moss Motoring

    --attempts to redress the balance
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  3. #23
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    British automotive electrics were notoriously unreliable, and the boss of the biggest company, Lucas, became known as the "Prince of Darkness"

    Prince of Darkness - Joseph Lucas ? Moss Motoring

    --attempts to redress the balance
    I was active in the local Sports Car Club in Edmonton in the days of my youth and the majority of members were ex Brits. So I am very familiar with the term.
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  4. #24
    The Covfefe are Coming! BitterPill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    1. If there is no God or higher power, then religions don't have to be "right", they just have to "win" politically, because "right/wrong" is meaningless beyond what those in power decide. And since population-wise, atheists are a minority while world religions have billions of followers, there is next to no chance of atheism "winning".

    Being "right" is meaningless unless one believes in a higher power, because if there isn't one, then only "might" makes "right".

    2. If there is a God or higher power, then atheism is a likely road to damnation.

    So either way, atheism as a "movement" is pointless and futile, and there's no practical reason to be an atheist, even if a person believes religions are false, they'd be better off just "doing what Romans do" and be on the winning "side" than picking the losing side which has nothing to gain in fighting a "war" against religion it can never win.
    Being agnostic, I sure dodged that bullet. What a relief.
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  5. #25
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    On the other hand, a decent caring god will recognise the honestly held lack of belief of the atheist, compared to punishing the deviant majority of theists who picked the wrong god out of thousands to choose from.
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  6. #26
    Established Member soupnazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    1. If there is no God or higher power, then religions don't have to be "right", they just have to "win" politically, because "right/wrong" is meaningless beyond what those in power decide. And since population-wise, atheists are a minority while world religions have billions of followers, there is next to no chance of atheism "winning".

    Being "right" is meaningless unless one believes in a higher power, because if there isn't one, then only "might" makes "right".

    2. If there is a God or higher power, then atheism is a likely road to damnation.

    So either way, atheism as a "movement" is pointless and futile, and there's no practical reason to be an atheist, even if a person believes religions are false, they'd be better off just "doing what Romans do" and be on the winning "side" than picking the losing side which has nothing to gain in fighting a "war" against religion it can never win.
    As an atheist the first thing I like to say is that I do not speak for all atheists or even any of them. Atheists are highly diverse they are left wing, right wing, conservative, liberal and libertarian. And any other sort of person you can imagine. They only agree that religion is foolish and there is no god but after that the disagreement about EVERYTHING grows exponentially.

    While there may have been a few groups of atheists here and there trying to " spread the word " there has never really been an atheist movement per-say nor an atheist cause.

    Atheists are usually individuals who make the choice to be atheist usually as a conclusion after a lot of thought about religion and morality and science etc. They may argue about religion and criticize it or even verbally skewer and shred religion but they seldom if ever become any kind of movement or cause.

    Therefore your premise is false and a failure because there is no cause to lose. For most atheists the battle was won when the first amendment was written and freedom of religion was understood to also mean freedom from religion. There is nothing else to fight for.

    Once again many opinions on these matters vary among atheists but many atheists agree that we cannot change people's minds about religion. Faith is just to strong to reason against, by definition faith allows people to suspend reason, logic and evidence and accept the unbelievable. My favorite quote on the subject came from Archie Bunker who said " faith is what you have when you believe in something that no one in their right mind would believe".

    So yes an atheist will seldom change or convert people from their beliefs it is simply a wash if you even try. The best some atheists can hope to do is plant a few seeds of doubt here and there and see if they grow into anything. But there is no cause to lose as long as we have freedom of and from religion.
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  7. #27
    Established Member Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    1. If there is no God or higher power, then religions don't have to be "right", they just have to "win" politically, because "right/wrong" is meaningless beyond what those in power decide. And since population-wise, atheists are a minority while world religions have billions of followers, there is next to no chance of atheism "winning".

    Being "right" is meaningless unless one believes in a higher power, because if there isn't one, then only "might" makes "right".

    2. If there is a God or higher power, then atheism is a likely road to damnation.

    So either way, atheism as a "movement" is pointless and futile, and there's no practical reason to be an atheist, even if a person believes religions are false, they'd be better off just "doing what Romans do" and be on the winning "side" than picking the losing side which has nothing to gain in fighting a "war" against religion it can never win.
    That is illogical and absurd. Atheism is not a movement and if an individual doesn't want to follow the herd and believe in fairy tales, then that individual is entitled to do so.

    You make a ridiculous point. There is no 'war against religion'-that's just Christians playing out their martyr complexes.

    Your point no. 2 is just Pascal's wager, and again is illogical.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
    Last edited by Blues63; 2nd September 2017 at 02:22 PM.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHjulie View Post
    Why do you have the devil as your avatar?
    I'm a devil's advocate, so I use that as my avatar for ironic reasons.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    That is illogical and absurd. Atheism is not a movement and if an individual doesn't want to follow the herd and believe in fairy tales, then that individual is entitled to do so.

    You make a ridiculous point. There is no 'war against religion'-that's just Christians playing out their martyr complexes.

    Your point no. 2 is just Pascal's wager, and again is illogical.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
    No, point is if a guy could become a rich televangelist or cult leader, even if he knows its all 'false', what does he have to lose by it if there is no God or afterlife?

    If he admitted he was a liar he'd lose his followers and wealth and have nothing to "gain" by it, since there's no reward from some "big man in the sky" for speaking the "truth"?

    So from a materialist perspective, truth is meaningless, all that matters is what works - "The victor will never be asked if he told the truth - Hitler"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Actual people of faith never speak the way the Op has.

    There is no actual spirituality motivating that kind of crap.
    I never said I was a "person of faith", I just said that arguing in favor of atheism is pointless.

    Because if atheism is true, and the material world is all that exists, then why should a rich hypocritical televangelist care either way - if the material world is all that exists, then at least he was financially successful despite being a liar, and if there is no God or higher power than the material world, he doesn't have to worry about being punished by a higher power for lying either.

    So my point still stands, since it would be more in an atheist's self-interest to convert to a religion if it benefitted them than bother trying to advocate what they think is "truth" when they have nothing materially to gain from it; caring about "truth" only makes sense if one believes in a higher power or some type of eternal "reward".

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