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Thread: Why atheism is a lost cause...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    What nonsense. Morality is absolutely necessary to human survival. It has certain genetic links. It allows for cooperation, group living, and continuation of the species.

    Morality also exists in every species of mammals, birds, fish and, as we are starting to discover, plants.
    So why should an atheist like Jeffery Dahmer be sorry for anything he did if he happened to not be "born" with those moral genes?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    I never said I was a "person of faith", I just said that arguing in favor of atheism is pointless.

    Because if atheism is true, and the material world is all that exists, then why should a rich hypocritical televangelist care either way - if the material world is all that exists, then at least he was financially successful despite being a liar, and if there is no God or higher power than the material world, he doesn't have to worry about being punished by a higher power for lying either.

    So my point still stands, since it would be more in an atheist's self-interest to convert to a religion if it benefitted them than bother trying to advocate what they think is "truth" when they have nothing materially to gain from it; caring about "truth" only makes sense if one believes in a higher power or some type of eternal "reward".
    That's a minor variation of Pascal's Wager.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Actual people of faith never speak the way the Op has.

    There is no actual spirituality motivating that kind of crap.
    Actual people of Faith would NEVER have a pic of the Devil on their profile. So the OP again disproves his own argument..
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  4. #34
    In the Human Network Babylon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    No, point is if a guy could become a rich televangelist or cult leader, even if he knows its all 'false', what does he have to lose by it if there is no God or afterlife?

    If he admitted he was a liar he'd lose his followers and wealth and have nothing to "gain" by it, since there's no reward from some "big man in the sky" for speaking the "truth"?

    So from a materialist perspective, truth is meaningless, all that matters is what works - "The victor will never be asked if he told the truth - Hitler"
    You keep telling us what the point is without making a point about the actual topic that YOU created. How is atheism a lost cause because of ANYTHING you are saying..? Atheism is a lost cause because preachers can lie without ramification? GREAT Thread..

    And how many times are you going throw that dumb Hitler quote around?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    My favorite is the Catholics. Live, commit a string of mortal sins, die, get sent to Hell, and THEN.....

    Your relatives can buy you eternity in paradise (plenary indulgences) on the cheap from any parish priest!

    If that doesn't blow your mind.....morality is totally nonessential. All you really need is a few bucks paid out after you die, and you too can spend eternity with the angels.
    Are you bragging or complaining?

  6. #36
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanStill View Post
    Among all the billions and billions on Earth who have lived and have ever lived, all the various religions from Buddhist to Zorosatarian, surely the great majority wasted their time on the wrong religion. So the great majority of all humanity lost, because they picked the wrong religion, or never even knew of the existence of the "true" religion, (whichever one it actually turns out to be). So it sounds like you are arguing that one shouldn't be religious because it's more than likely you have picked the wrong one.
    What is interesting is that many religions do not hold that believing or picking the "wrong religion" sends you to Hell for eternity. Note that Pascal's Wager, therefore, was based on the Xian idea of G-d (and this is actually explicit on the part of Pascal himself).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    I'm still torn between FSM and Phil, the prince of insufficient light.
    Personally, I would go with Phil, Master of Heck. He just sends you down to the basement to do some accounting for a week.
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  8. #38
    Veteran Member Isalexi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    So why should an atheist like Jeffery Dahmer be sorry for anything he did if he happened to not be "born" with those moral genes?
    But he found God and converted and now he's up in heaven, right?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    No, point is if a guy could become a rich televangelist or cult leader, even if he knows its all 'false', what does he have to lose by it if there is no God or afterlife?

    If he admitted he was a liar he'd lose his followers and wealth and have nothing to "gain" by it, since there's no reward from some "big man in the sky" for speaking the "truth"?

    So from a materialist perspective, truth is meaningless, all that matters is what works - "The victor will never be asked if he told the truth - Hitler"
    You posit an illogical argument.

  10. #40
    Junior Member Claudius the God's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    1. If there is no God or higher power, then religions don't have to be "right", they just have to "win" politically, because "right/wrong" is meaningless beyond what those in power decide. And since population-wise, atheists are a minority while world religions have billions of followers, there is next to no chance of atheism "winning".

    Being "right" is meaningless unless one believes in a higher power, because if there isn't one, then only "might" makes "right".

    2. If there is a God or higher power, then atheism is a likely road to damnation.

    So either way, atheism as a "movement" is pointless and futile, and there's no practical reason to be an atheist, even if a person believes religions are false, they'd be better off just "doing what Romans do" and be on the winning "side" than picking the losing side which has nothing to gain in fighting a "war" against religion it can never win.
    What makes you think right and wrong were a creation of the state or religion? It has always been a personal and social construct lead by the times and the limits of people to walk in the shoes of another human being. Our modern governments try very hard to make laws that reflect the mores of the times, they usually lag the cultures in which they are formed but sooner or later, they catch up or these governments die. I find it fascinating that you need a mystical being to be good, perhaps you have tendencies that you are afraid to confront.

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