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Thread: The old testament

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    And not relevant.
    For you. For American presidents and I suppose for many Americans it is irrelevant to consider the Bible as a book "written by ignorant, bigoted savages".

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    Quote Originally Posted by font View Post
    For you. For American presidents and I suppose for many Americans it is irrelevant to consider the Bible as a book "written by ignorant, bigoted savages".
    What does it matter? It is a tradition and nothing more really. How do we know the Presidents were even genuine in their sentiment? In a country with 24% of the population identifying as 'Evangelical' it would be impolitic not to do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by font View Post
    For you.
    It is irrelevant as a matter of law, which was the context. Politics is a whole different matter.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    How do we know the Presidents were even genuine in their sentiment?
    Because presidents never lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    In a country with 24% of the population identifying as 'Evangelical' it would be impolitic not to do it.
    Yet some have not, opting instead to affirm rather than swear (as provided for in U.S. Const. art. II, 1, cl. 8), to wit: John Quincy Adams, Franklin Pierce and Theodore Roosevelt.

    Keith Ellison took a lot of flak for swearing in on a Koran instead (click here for the full article), with more than one critic opining that using a Bible should be U.S. law (notwithstanding that the official oaths of Representatives and Senators are done en masse without books - all use of books at all is just photo-op) notwithstanding U.S. Const. art. VI, cl. 3, which prohibits a religious test for public office.
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  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    What does it matter? It is a tradition and nothing more really. How do we know the Presidents were even genuine in their sentiment? In a country with 24% of the population identifying as 'Evangelical' it would be impolitic not to do it.
    Why only Evangelical Christians? What about Catholics? I suppose that all Christians respect the Bible.
    Nobody knows what really thinks this or that person and it is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is that most of American presidents considered themselves Christians, sweared oath on the Bible and sometimes even kissed it. Are all of them hypocrites? I wouldn't be so sure..
    The fact also is that "half of all American adults say it’s important for a president to share their religious beliefs".
    Almost all U.S. presidents have been Christians, including Trump | Pew Research Center
    Another fact is that atheists, those who consider the Bible as a book "written by ignorant, bigoted savages", make up only several percents of the population.
    Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center
    Last edited by font; 9th October 2017 at 08:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is irrelevant as a matter of law, which was the context.
    Nope, it wasn't the context.

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    Quote Originally Posted by font View Post
    Nope, it wasn't the context.
    Yes, it was. When you are talking about testimony in court, law is the context. Trace the quotes backward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Yes, it was. When you are talking about testimony in court, law is the context. Trace the quotes backward.
    Testimony in court and oath of presidents were used to show the use of the Bible , "written by ignorant, bigoted savages", in important official events. This was the context. Nothing to do with the law.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    In the mediaeval period Christian hierarchy shared prominent roles in government with warlords (e.g. Kings). Mediaeval Europe was most certainly a theocracy in that the church proscribed harsh and extreme punishments for any infraction of Church law. It influenced law, domestic and foreign policy and it arranged marriages for the royal houses. Kings from one end of Europe to the other feared Rome.

    Elementary mediaeval history there ol' chap. It wasn't until the Reformation and the following Renaissance that people began to be free of the Church. That took the invention of the printing press and the dissemination of material once limited to the hierarchy for interpretation. It is no coincidence that the Church hunted and tried the owners of the presses merely for printing the Bible in a language lay people could read, but knowledge has always been the enemy of Christianity.

    It is still an ongoing process, but happily with science and history disproving much of content of the texts, hopefully the dogma will wither in the developed world and sanity may finally prevail.

    Historically, it has been a long time coming, and it will.
    Has Christianity ever been a Theocracy in America? The Atheist talk about it all the time like at any minute its about to happen. Came pretty close when that Bremerton Football Coach was praying after the games on the fifty yard line

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    Quote Originally Posted by font View Post
    Why only Evangelical Christians? What about Catholics? I suppose that all Christians respect the Bible.
    Because the Evangelicals are a noisy bunch.

    Nobody knows what really thinks this or that person and it is irrelevant to this discussion. The fact is that most of American presidents considered themselves Christians, sweared oath on the Bible and sometimes even kissed it. Are all of them hypocrites? I wouldn't be so sure..
    I never suggested all or none. I don't usually post in dualistic terms as I don't think like that. There is an old quote from a Roman Republican Seanator that always works in this argument. When asked if the Senator believed in the Gods he replied, "In public, I believe in them all, at home, I believe in none."

    It is politic in the US to profess adherence to Christianity.

    The fact also is that "half of all American adults say it’s important for a president to share their religious beliefs".
    And that is why many would state they're Christians even if they are not. If I was running for office I would do the same.

    Almost all U.S. presidents have been Christians, including Trump
    Yes, I'm sure they say that. Trump is about as Christian as a skunk.

    Another fact is that atheists, those who consider the Bible as a book "written by ignorant, bigoted savages", make up only several percents of the population.
    So what? That is a fallacious argument (argumentum ad populum).

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