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Thread: Random thoughts about religion

  1. #41
    Burn it down Macduff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    That's adorable. "Trust God. When that doesn't work, use science,"
    I'm sure the Jesuits would be fascinated to hear that they have to choose between God and science.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...men-scientists

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    Crucifixtion is one of the most excrutiatingly painful ways to die.
    Okay. So, more accurately, Jesus:


  3. #43
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macduff View Post
    I'm sure the Jesuits would be fascinated to hear that they have to choose between God and science.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...men-scientists
    Yeah...the problem with "religious" scientists is that they aren't. When faced with a situation where science disputes religion, they choose religion every time.
    Thanks from splansing

  4. #44
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    Your post reminds me of the story regarding the man that built his house next to a river. Where the water ended, his house started. Well, it rained continuously for days and the river had risen to such a point that he had to climb on to his roof. Two guys in a boat came by and offered to take him to safety. But the man replied, My God will take care of me, he will let nothing happen to me, so I don't need your help. The guys argued with him but had to leave to save others. Now he was on the peak of his roof, the water lapping at his feet. A helicopter shows up and tells him to grap the rope that they will drop. But again, he refuses their help claiming that his God will protect him. Well, he drowns and is at the gates with St. Peter. He says to Peter-I am so disappointed, I told everyone that God would protect me and he let me drown. To which St Peter responded, what the heck do you want, we sent you a boat and a helicopter.
    yeah. I'm sure that makes you feel better: believing that that God directed the atheist to do what he was unwilling to do himself...

  5. #45
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Not at all. Again, why not both? Science comes from G-d, too, since He created the natural universe. Since when have you known me to disparage science or religion?
    Well...to be honest, if you'll remember most of my observations aren't reserved for Judaism. Jews tend to be very pragmatic about their religion. They don't spend a lot of time telling other people how much better they are, and how badly everyone else needs to be just like them. And they let religion do what it does, and let science do what it does. Christians, and Muslims could really take a cue from how Jews interact with the rest of the world.
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  6. #46
    RNG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Yeah...the problem with "religious" scientists is that they aren't. When faced with a situation where science disputes religion, they choose religion every time.
    Actually that's not quite true. I did graduate work in chemistry with two very religious people. Each of them handled these two often conflicting concepts in totally different ways.

    And for the record, as Ian has pointed out, it isn't so much religion/science conflict as it is the bible/science conflict.

    Anyway, one just blatantly admitted he used doublethink. In the lab and related he used one set of concepts, in church and related he used another. The fact that they were often diametrically opposed didn't seem to bother him a bit. That was strange.

    The other went the way of considering the bible to not be literally true but a guideline for life and such. Of course that left him very vulnerable to arguments about what parts had to be followed and what parts were stories that could basically be ignored and who got to decide.

    But each seemed to be able to live with it.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Well...to be honest, if you'll remember most of my observations aren't reserved for Judaism. Jews tend to be very pragmatic about their religion. They don't spend a lot of time telling other people how much better they are, and how badly everyone else needs to be just like them. And they let religion do what it does, and let science do what it does. Christians, and Muslims could really take a cue from how Jews interact with the rest of the world.
    Has anyone ever met a bona fide Jew who told you their religion is great and so you should join them?

    It doesn't happen. If only other religions were so civilized.
    Thanks from Czernobog and RNG

  8. #48
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Anyway, one just blatantly admitted he used doublethink. In the lab and related he used one set of concepts, in church and related he used another. The fact that they were often diametrically opposed didn't seem to bother him a bit. That was strange.
    Not as strange as you might think. Since science and religion are two different things, with very different purposes, there is no reason they cannot co-exist.

  9. #49
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splansing View Post
    Has anyone ever met a bona fide Jew who told you their religion is great and so you should join them?
    Quite to the contrary, while we accept converts (I know several Orthodox converts), we discourage it (generally and specifically), for the spiritual benefit of the individual, since it is easier from a Jewish perspective to be a non-Jew than a Jew, for spiritual-religious purposes.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    Actually that's not quite true. I did graduate work in chemistry with two very religious people. Each of them handled these two often conflicting concepts in totally different ways.

    And for the record, as Ian has pointed out, it isn't so much religion/science conflict as it is the bible/science conflict.

    Anyway, one just blatantly admitted he used doublethink. In the lab and related he used one set of concepts, in church and related he used another. The fact that they were often diametrically opposed didn't seem to bother him a bit. That was strange.

    The other went the way of considering the bible to not be literally true but a guideline for life and such. Of course that left him very vulnerable to arguments about what parts had to be followed and what parts were stories that could basically be ignored and who got to decide.

    But each seemed to be able to live with it.
    Considering that most humans are religious, obviously scientists find ways of reconciling religion and science.

    Choosing to view religion as a possible guide or framework for a spiritual existence has to be the most common. Vulnerable to arguments? I wouldn't look at it that way. Religious beliefs are just philosophical meanderings. If one is not compelled to think the book is literally true, one can re-shape one's views as they learn without any dissonance at all. The underlying nature of reality is just one of those things we have an imperfect grasp of, and so it can shift around on us and that makes perfect sense to me.

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