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Thread: Why are spiritual people smarter and more creative than most atheists?

  1. #1
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    Why are spiritual people smarter and more creative than most atheists?

    I'm not identifying as "religious" myself, but historically it seems that the most creative and sociall advanced people have been of a spiritual nature, the majority of creative fields such as music, arts, sciences, mathematics, philosophy, etc have been dominated and intertwined with spirituality (even including theories such as the Big Bang theory, which was invented by a clergyman).

    Granted, most of them weren't "bandwagoners" who just followed the most conventional organized system of belief, but they weren't just simple-minded materialists who decided to be atheists because it's less mentally taxing than trying to answer deep metaphysical questions.

    This makes me think that from an evolutionary POV, spirituality is linked to higher creative mental faculties which are more pronounced in humans, while materialism is just the result of people having under-developed creative faculties, and relying on their less-evolved rational faculties because of the survival purposes they traditionally served humans and their ape ancestors. (E.X. A chimpanzee constantly having to hunt and fight wouldn't have had the time to sit back and contemplate things of a creative and spiritual nature).

    I think this image sums it up best:



    Or this one:

    Spiritualist:



    Atheist:



    Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

    And sure, while there were a few historically important atheists like David Hume who were intelligent and creative, I think atheism is the "default" position that dumb, disaffected, or nihilistic teen-angsty people usually take, since it takes no creativity or mental effort to not believe in something than to actually think about life's bigger questions and make coherent arguments for them.

    (And at the same time, given that most "out and proud atheists" are secular Humanists today, it's also a likely a lot easier to attack fundamentalists who believe in Biblical literalism - given how easy an opponent they are - than it is to actually defend the sketchy philosophy of Secular Humanism).
    Last edited by Reality; 1st November 2017 at 01:11 AM.
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    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    You're indentifying as "religious" all right, and a moderately ignorant petty and extremist religion at that.
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    Veteran Member John T Ford's Avatar
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    There is a difference between atheist and anti-theist.

    I know several atheist who are for the most part fairly intellectual individuals.

    They are nonbelievers and they do not care if or what someone else believes.

    This describes an atheist.

    The angry, hate filed leftist you are referring to that hates all things religious and specifically Christianity and Judaism is an anti-theist.

    These people are extremely angry and can be very dangerous and would like nothing more than to rid the US of the Constitutional Right to worship its' citizens please.

    I assure you .... you will encounter some of these anti-theist in this thread.

  4. #4
    Telecastin' Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    I'm not identifying as "religious" myself, but historically it seems that the most creative and sociall advanced people have been of a spiritual nature, the majority of creative fields such as music, arts, sciences, mathematics, philosophy, etc have been dominated and intertwined with spirituality (even including theories such as the Big Bang theory, which was invented by a clergyman).
    Well, that is simple. Most people throughout history have identified as religious, whether out of genuine belief or fear of persecution. So, your premise is an utter failure which remains to be demonstrated. The rest of your post is immaterial owing to this point of logic and it simply a veiled ad hominem attack intended to bait.

    Doesn't the fact that you resorted to such infantile memes kind of destroy your own premise?

    Think about it.
    Last edited by Blues63; 1st November 2017 at 05:10 AM.

  5. #5
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    It would appear, the most intelligent, including many of the founders of this nation, believe in something more powerful than themselves and have the humility to recognize their place in the universe, as opposed to false profit, con artists and hucksters abusing the spirituality of others, to profit themselves. The only "spiritual belief" they appear to have is in Mammon and the power of deceptive manipulation.

    "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."

    (The following is from Einstein and Religion by Max Jammer, Princeton University Press)
    "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations."

    "A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels."

    The following is from The Society for General Systems Research, Yearbook of the Society for General Systems Research (Palo Alto, CA: The Society for General Systems Research, 1956), 24
    "The world that we have made as a result of the level of thinking that we have done so
    far, has created problems we cannot solve at the level of thinking at which we created
    them . . . . We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humankind is to
    survive."


    (The following is from The Quotable Einstein)
    "Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me."

    "I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

    "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in Nature."

    "The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that , compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection."

    ". . . In spite of all this, I don't let a single opportunity pass unheeded, nor have I lost my sense of humor. When God created the ass he gave him a thick skin." Einstein: The Life and Times by Ronald W. Clark, Avon Books."

    Albert Einstein and Religion










    Ghandi -
    "We sat with him on the floor in his little house. We felt very humble in the presence of such a great man. We asked him many questions about the future of India and as he replied we could see he had great plans for the country. Then we were surprised when he said, "I have a great respect for Christianity. I often read the Sermon on the Mount and have gained much from it. I know of no one who has done more for humanity than Jesus. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Christianity, but the trouble is with you Christians. You do not begin to live up to your own teachings." That made us all the more humble. We were impressed by his honesty and his very gracious words. We stayed with him for about an hour and a half in his home and then we drove back to Jabalpur."
    http://people.virginia.edu/~pm9k/jem/words/gandhi.html


    I would place the Dalai Lama more closely with Einstein and many of the founders of this nation when it comes to "spirituality" and intelligence. Perhaps the biggest difference these folks share from those who demonstrate and display the opposite of, is humility. Rather than see themselves as a surrogate for god(s) as a means of manipulating the masses to their bidding, they demonstrate a sincere belief in their minutia, relative to the universe. Also, another trait intelligent people appear to have, is the capacity to recognize the con artists, mostly through their insincerity, their lack of humility and their taking money from people to enrich their own lives, while acting in a manner that ensnares the less intelligent into thinking their preachers are either messengers from their god(s) or demigod's themselves. One sure sign appears to be those who preach the teachings of Christ and the Bible (which include the New Testament, for Christians) with all the passages about humility, wealth and charity, even as they live lives of the rich and famous, OFF of their preaching, which is FAR from expressing a humility to any spiritual belief in a higher power, other then a power they can profit personally from.


    Intelligent people will note what is wrong with the following "portrait".


    Humility


    Philippians 2:3-11 ESV

    Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. ...



    James 4:6 ESV

    "But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”



    Luke 14:11 ESV

    For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”



    Proverbs 22:4 ESV

    The reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor and life.




    1 Peter 5:6 ESV

    Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,



    Matthew 23:12 ESV

    "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."



    Colossians 3:12 ESV

    "Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,"




    Romans 12:3 ESV

    "For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned."


    Lots MORE.....
    https://www.openbible.info/topics/humility


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Among white evangelicals, regular churchgoers are the most supportive of Trump
    Among white evangelicals, regular churchgoers are the most supportive of Trump | Pew Research Center








    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    With regard to atheists? In my experience many people are atheists because they experienced and recognized the frauds who claim to be "religious", even as those who claimed to be religious, defied what they claimed to believe in. Many atheists in my experience, act in ways that are more in line with people like Einstein, the Dalai Lama and many of the founders of this nation, in many ways, more in keeping with Christ's teachings and more Christlike, than many church going Christians I know. That some people have latched on to the power of belief, in order to profit themselves, is nothing new to history. The intelligence to recognize the difference between genuine belief in an entity one is sincerely humbled by (versus recognizing the fake "believers", acting out parts, to deceive others) may be an innate capacity, as throughout history, there is no shortage of those who have followed con artists using "belief" or their "connection" to god(s) as their lure.

    There are others that still retain a belief in a higher entity/being, but have left organized religion, in part, in some cases LARGE part, because of the fraud they see in people who claim to believe in Christ's teachings, then do the exact opposite, as illustrated above with who voted for Trump.

    As our intelligent founders recognized from their study of history and their own experience and as illustrated by what the OP appears to be attempting to do, politics and religion are like oil and water and don't mix well for very long, if at all.
    Last edited by KnotaFrayed; 1st November 2017 at 05:47 AM.
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  6. #6
    Veteran Member Dr Sampson Simpson's Avatar
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    Belief in god has nothing to do with intelligence and creativity, and a genetic trait humans evolved to deal with their advanced intelligence, such as questions of self and the meaning of life. Considering there is very little intelligence involved in believing ridiculous, contradictory ancient stories, that were manipulated/revised throughout history, and believing in something without a shred of proof. It's just something many people feel the need to have, in spite of their human brains. This is why some people get so angry or offended by non-believers or other religions, they have a logical part of their brain that is fighting their "instincts" to believe
    Last edited by Dr Sampson Simpson; 1st November 2017 at 05:32 AM.
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  7. #7
    The Republican Agenda HadEnough2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John T Ford View Post
    There is a difference between atheist and anti-theist.

    I know several atheist who are for the most part fairly intellectual individuals.

    They are nonbelievers and they do not care if or what someone else believes.

    This describes an atheist.

    The angry, hate filed leftist you are referring to that hates all things religious and specifically Christianity and Judaism is an anti-theist.

    These people are extremely angry and can be very dangerous and would like nothing more than to rid the US of the Constitutional Right to worship its' citizens please.

    I assure you .... you will encounter some of these anti-theist in this thread.
    Who the fuck are you to judge? You've spewed as much anger and hate on this forum as anyone.

    Atheism comes from a belief in science and common sense.

    “An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deeds must be done instead of prayer. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty banished, war eliminated.”

    "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
    -- Stephen Roberts
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangermouse View Post
    You're indentifying as "religious" all right, and a moderately ignorant petty and extremist religion at that.
    Uh nope, I'm not a member of any organized religion.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnough2 View Post
    Who the fuck are you to judge? You've spewed as much anger and hate on this forum as anyone.

    Atheism comes from a belief in science and common sense.
    Uh... not quite

    Scientist: Quantum physics can prove there's an afterlife

    https://www.cnet.com/news/scientist-...-an-afterlife/

    Secular Humanist atheism primarily originates with the philosophy of Auguste Comte after the French Revolution (who wanted to create a secular replacement for the Catholic Church) - it's much less just an inquisitive "belief in science", so much as just a naturalistic philosophy with its own rigid moral codes and non-empirical philosophical beliefs (e.x. belief in science aiding social progress, belief in altruism, etc).

    “An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that deeds must be done instead of prayer. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty banished, war eliminated.”
    Or an atheist like Marquis de Sade believes... you get the idea.

  10. #10
    Wrinkly Member Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    Uh nope, I'm not a member of any organized religion.
    You made up your own? Are you the God in it?
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