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Thread: How and why can people ignore their Godís immoral ways?

  1. #1
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    How and why can people ignore their Godís immoral ways?

    How and why can people ignore their Godís immoral ways?

    I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qurían and Talmud.

    If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for Godís crimes against humanity. This aside.

    I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

    As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacobís ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satanís grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

    The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

    The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

    If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

    In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

    I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satanís hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

    I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.

    If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.

    I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

    As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

    The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

    The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

    If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

    In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

    I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

    Regards
    DL
    You just created a Catch 22..

    1. If he is God he cannot be immoral

    2. If there is no God, he cannot be immoral.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    You just created a Catch 22..

    1. If he is God he cannot be immoral

    2. If there is no God, he cannot be immoral.
    You misunderstand. His premise is the same one I have been making: if your God exists, and your holy books are an accurate record of that God, his actions, and his expectations, then your God is immoral. Now that premise can be supported by numerous passages, and recorded events in both the Bible, and the Q'uran. Thus, he is asking how you reconcile the God of record with your propaganda of a God that does not actually exist in the texts of your holy books, and the excuse of, "Well, since he's God, it's different" is an insufficient response, as that simply translates to "Do as I say, not as I do,", and "Because I said so,". Tell me. Assuming that you're a parent how well has that ever worked? Or, more accurately, how well has that ever worked for anyone over the age of, like, four, who is capable of employing reason?
    Last edited by Czernobog; 14th November 2017 at 09:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    You just created a Catch 22..

    1. If he is God he cannot be immoral

    2. If there is no God, he cannot be immoral.
    Why can a God not be immoral?

    That God, were he real, created man in his image. Are you suggesting that we cannot be immoral?

    If so, why did God promise to punish so many moral souls?

    Regards
    DL

  5. #5
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    You misunderstand. His premise is the same one I have been making: if your God exists, and your holy books are an accurate record of that God, his actions, and his expectations, then your God is immoral. Now that premise can be supported by numerous passages, and recorded events in both the Bible, and the Q'uran. Thus, he is asking how you reconcile the God of record with your propaganda of a God that does not actually exist in the texts of your holy books, and the excuse of, "Well, since he's God, it's different" is an insufficient response, as that simply translates to "Do as I say, not as I do,", and "Because I said so,". Tell me. Assuming that you're a parent how well has that ever worked? Or, more accurately, how well has that ever worked for anyone over the age of, like, four, who is capable of employing reason?
    If I had a nickel for every time a theist told me "Well, since he's God, it's different" and to "Do as I say, not as I do,", and "Because I said so,"." ------------ I would be a rich man.

    Regards
    DL
    Thanks from Czernobog and Friday13

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    If I had a nickel for every time a theist told me "Well, since he's God, it's different" and to "Do as I say, not as I do,", and "Because I said so,"." ------------ I would be a rich man.

    Regards
    DL
    Yeah...you'll notice that, suddenly, "just ignore it, and hopefully it'll go away" seems to be the chosen approach.

  7. #7
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Morality is a human conception, it doesn't apply to God.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Morality is a human conception, it doesn't apply to God.
    Well, now that is a very enlightened position for a theist. Most theists would insist that not only does morality apply to God, but that God is the foundation, and architect of their morality.

  9. #9
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Well, now that is a very enlightened position for a theist. Most theists would insist that not only does morality apply to God, but that God is the foundation, and architect of their morality.
    Most theists would be wrong.

    You can't apply human standards to God.

    We can't even conceive the reality He exists in let alone try to explain or justify His actions.

    Things we perceive may not be actually how they are in God's universe.

    When we see him slaughter children or whatever it may only be our perception here and now.

    Gives a person a headache even thinking about the complexity of God's world.

    We won't know the truth until we finally ascend to Heaven and have it explained to us, or as much as we are allowed or are capable of understanding.

    You guys need to stop treating God as if he's a simply mortal like us, He's not.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Yeah...you'll notice that, suddenly, "just ignore it, and hopefully it'll go away" seems to be the chosen approach.
    I have not had that used on me as yet.

    Regards
    DL

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