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Thread: The Bible's archaic, arbitrary code of ethics is ineffective in the real world.

  1. #21
    Franken-Stein DemoKKKrats excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    If you no longer follow the old testament why is it still part of the Bible?

    Because Christ is foretold in the OT.

  2. #22
    Franken-Stein DemoKKKrats excalibur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    ... I bet you believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

    So? Oh, you would crucify that poster then?

  3. #23
    Franken-Stein DemoKKKrats excalibur's Avatar
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    Read it all.

    Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
    Ephesians 5:22-33 (ESV)

  4. #24
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Not sure what kind of trap you are setting here but for the moment I will say yes.
    Only demonstrating another contradiction. 1st Corinthians 13: "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." However, John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life." So, the only way to get to Heaven is to have faith. Contrary to Paul's opinion, Love is not the greatest, but faith is.

    If the most important thing is to have faith, then everything else is relatively*irrelevant. You can beat and rape your children, lie, steal, and anything else. When it comes time to make those hard moral decisions, you know that if you backslide a little (or even a lot) you can always ask for forgiveness later. Furthermore, when the emphasis of ethics is taken off of actions and focused on beliefs it cripples your ability to weigh the value of your actions. A real system of ethics, like the one the court of law uses, focuses where it should be, on actions that matter, actions that hurt/help people.

    Another problem with faith is that it's the opposite of reason. Faith, in fact, is the active choice to believe in something, absent of any rational reason to do so. God is everything, and God's word is everything. Logic would tell you that you don't need anything else. But in reality you do need something else. You need a lot more. You need knowledge. You need introspection. You need growth. You need reason. Faith doesn't fulfil everything; it eliminates everything else. Faith, as a foundation, ultimately creates a perception of reality that puts the faithful in exact opposition to objective reality.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Only demonstrating another contradiction. 1st Corinthians 13: "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." However, John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life." So, the only way to get to Heaven is to have faith. Contrary to Paul's opinion, Love is not the greatest, but faith is.

    If the most important thing is to have faith, then everything else is relatively*irrelevant. You can beat and rape your children, lie, steal, and anything else. When it comes time to make those hard moral decisions, you know that if you backslide a little (or even a lot) you can always ask for forgiveness later. Furthermore, when the emphasis of ethics is taken off of actions and focused on beliefs it cripples your ability to weigh the value of your actions. A real system of ethics, like the one the court of law uses, focuses where it should be, on actions that matter, actions that hurt/help people.

    Another problem with faith is that it's the opposite of reason. Faith, in fact, is the active choice to believe in something, absent of any rational reason to do so. God is everything, and God's word is everything. Logic would tell you that you don't need anything else. But in reality you do need something else. You need a lot more. You need knowledge. You need introspection. You need growth. You need reason. Faith doesn't fulfil everything; it eliminates everything else. Faith, as a foundation, ultimately creates a perception of reality that puts the faithful in exact opposition to objective reality.
    Incorrect. the only into heaven is to ACCEPT the gift God Gave you... if you don't want to be with God, don't blame him for YOUR choice...

  6. #26
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    Read it all.



    Ephesians 5:22-33 (ESV)
    There is nothing in your expansion that alters what I said. Women are to submit to their husbands, placing them in an inferior position to men. Men are not told to treat women as their equals, but as beloved pets, or servants that they "care for", and treat with affection. Sorry, still not a positive, healthy morality.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Incorrect. the only into heaven is to ACCEPT the gift God Gave you... if you don't want to be with God, don't blame him for YOUR choice...
    Yes, you have to have faith. Not love, but faith. And you misunderstand, I don't blame God for anything. God doesn't exist. I blame the misogynistic, delusional men who wrote the Bible, and the generations of men who propagated this delusion down through the generations.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Well you will notice that Jesus and the disciples did not follow all of the laws in the OT.

    Did you ever wonder why that was?

    They worked on the Sabbath, they didn't always wash before they ate....the list goes on so obviously those laws no longer applied.

    The ones that did were repeated by Jesus and he observed those.

    So as I said, everything that was relevant carried over and Jesus told us about them but most of the laws were discarded with his arrival.

    If you would like more passages about Jesus fulfilling the law you can read these: (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28, 13:39, Romans 10:4)

    Not sure how you can make anything else of that.

    You can also see how God established a new covenant with the arrival of Jesus (Jeremiah 31:31-34, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:8-13, 9:11-15) so you really don't have much to go on with this line of questioning.
    So...Jesus lied when he said that every law was valid until the heavens, ad earth were no more? All you are doing is presenting more contradictions in the Bible. This is the problem with the Bible, as I pointed out in the OP - it is contradictory, vague, and immoral. You keep pointing to all of the laws that Jesus broke, without explaining why he would then say that every law was still valid. Christians do this all the time. Anything the Bible says that is contradictory, they just pretend it never said.

  9. #29
    Official HayJenn fan boi knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    Because Christ is foretold in the OT.
    What book?
    Thanks from Czernobog

  10. #30
    Established Member Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excalibur View Post
    So? Oh, you would crucify that poster then?
    No, the sane would merely laugh. It is the Christians that once killed people for their errant beliefs, and it seems they still pine for the good ol' days.
    Thanks from Czernobog and knight

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