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Thread: The Bible's archaic, arbitrary code of ethics is ineffective in the real world.

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Well Heaven will never disappear so that right there means anything that follows that statement can't be true.
    So, now you're saying that Jesus is a liar? Not according to Revelations. Accordin to revelations Heaven and Earth, and be replaced by a New Heaven and Earth. You don't know your own book very well, do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You are cherry picking one little sentence instead of looking at everything Jesus did and said over time in context.
    No, I'm not. I am acknowledging everything Jesus said, and done. I am pointing out that much of it was in contradiction to his words. I would only be "cherry ;picking" if I were insisting that all of the laws of the Old Testament were valid. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you have know way of stating definitively that they are not valid, because Jesus words, and actions were contradictory. And you can't rely on Paul, because if one must choose between the words of Paul, and the words of Jesus, then the words of Jesus should, logically, take precedence, if you are a Christian. You just want to ignore those things he said that don't fit with your desired understanding of the Bible. It's called cognitive dissonance.
    Last edited by Czernobog; 22nd November 2017 at 07:33 PM.

  2. #42
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    So, now you're saying that Jesus is a liar? Not according to Revelations. Accordin to revelations Heaven and Earth, and be replaced by a New Heaven and Earth. You don't know your own book very well, do you?


    No, I'm not. I am acknowledging everything Jesus said, and done. I am pointing out that much of it was in contradiction to his words. I would only be "cherry ;picking" if I were insisting that all of the laws of the Old Testament were valid. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you have know way of stating definitively that they are not valid, because Jesus words, and actions were contradictory. And you can't rely on Paul, because if one must choose between the words of Paul, and the words of Jesus, then the words of Jesus should, logically, take precedence, if you are a Christian. You just want to ignore those things he said that don't fit with your desired understanding of the Bible. It's called cognitive dissonance.
    Nobody understands revelations.

    And I don't ignore anything, I just don't focus on pointless things like you do.

  3. #43
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Nobody understands revelations.
    Maybe not, but since it specifically talks about the same event that Jesus does, one can assume that, if one believes in Christianity, this Heaven and Earth will one day pass away, just as Jesus said it would, at which point the Old Testament Laws will no longer be relevant, and that they will be replaced by a New Heaven, and Earth, just as John promised they would. If you're going to believe the Bible you have to believe all of it. Unfortunately, as soon as you start doing that, the Bible will drive you mad with its contradictory, ambiguous, and clearly immoral demands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    And I don't ignore anything, I just don't focus on pointless things like you do.
    "...pointless things..." ...like the fact that it is contradictory, and ambiguous. "I don't focus on..." is just semantics. It means you do exactly what I said, you employ cognitive dissonance in order to simply avoid those parts of the Bible that would force you to honestly analyse the Bible through the lens of rationality, and logic.

  4. #44
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Maybe not, but since it specifically talks about the same event that Jesus does, one can assume that, if one believes in Christianity, this Heaven and Earth will one day pass away, just as Jesus said it would, at which point the Old Testament Laws will no longer be relevant, and that they will be replaced by a New Heaven, and Earth, just as John promised they would. If you're going to believe the Bible you have to believe all of it. Unfortunately, as soon as you start doing that, the Bible will drive you mad with its contradictory, ambiguous, and clearly immoral demands.



    "...pointless things..." ...like the fact that it is contradictory, and ambiguous. "I don't focus on..." is just semantics. It means you do exactly what I said, you employ cognitive dissonance in order to simply avoid those parts of the Bible that would force you to honestly analyse the Bible through the lens of rationality, and logic.
    You are completely missing the point of the Bible with your search for flaws.

    You don't understand that being a Christian isn't based on the Bible.

    Its based on a relationship with God.

    The Bible is a reference tool.

  5. #45
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You are completely missing the point of the Bible with your search for flaws.

    You don't understand that being a Christian isn't based on the Bible.

    Its based on a relationship with God.

    The Bible is a reference tool.
    Okay, there is so much wrong this this post, I'm just going to take a couple of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You don't understand that being a Christian isn't based on the Bible.

    Its based on a relationship with God.
    Are you seriously saying that Christianity is not a religion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    The Bible is a reference tool.
    So, now you are going to try to minimise the Bible? Great. So, the bible is "just a reference tool". I guess that means that it's no more important than the Q'uran, or the Bhagavad Gita, right? After all, those are just tools too, right?

    See, you don't really get to do that. Either the Bible is what Christians claims it to be - the inerrant word of God - or it isn't. If it is then that makes it considerably more than "just a r3eference book"; if it's not then it makes it no more important than the Q'uran, the Bhagavad Gita, or any other book of mythology. You don't get to call it the former right up until you are forced to deal with the uncomfortable parts, then suddenly switch to "It's just a reference book," At least, you don't get to do that and be seen as anything other than a dishonest fanatic who is trying very hard to cover the fact that he knows his religion is based on bullshit.

  6. #46
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Are you seriously saying that Christianity is not a religion?
    Now you are starting to get it.

    Christianity is the only belief that doesn't rely on a man's works to reach the eternal state (whichever it is) it only depends on your RELATIONSHIP with God.

    All other religions (most) say that a man can reach a higher state by doing certain things whereas God says there is nothing we can ever do to please HIM.

    That is why He took our sin upon Himself because only in that way could we ever be worthy. All we need to do is accept the gift by recognizing what he did.

    There are no churches you need to go to, no scripture you have to follow, it really doesn't matter what the Bible says or doesn't or any contradictions that may be in it.

    None of that stuff actually matters.

    So you going off about Jesus made this claim or didn't is irrelevant to us Christians because its pointless.

    If you are right it doesn't matter and if you are wrong it doesn't matter.

    It has zero bearing on our salvation.

  7. #47
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    Now you are starting to get it.

    Christianity is the only belief that doesn't rely on a man's works to reach the eternal state (whichever it is) it only depends on your RELATIONSHIP with God.

    All other religions (most) say that a man can reach a higher state by doing certain things whereas God says there is nothing we can ever do to please HIM.

    That is why He took our sin upon Himself because only in that way could we ever be worthy. All we need to do is accept the gift by recognizing what he did.

    There are no churches you need to go to, no scripture you have to follow, it really doesn't matter what the Bible says or doesn't or any contradictions that may be in it.

    None of that stuff actually matters.

    So you going off about Jesus made this claim or didn't is irrelevant to us Christians because its pointless.

    If you are right it doesn't matter and if you are wrong it doesn't matter.

    It has zero bearing on our salvation.
    Dude. You follow a religion. Allow me to demonstrate. Do you:

    1. worship a god that cannot be detected by scientific methods?
    2. have a holy book in which your god tells you how to live?
    3. have an after-life where you will be judged according to your beliefs, actions and life choices?
    4. Believe that by being born into this world you were somehow infected with a disease called "sin", and that only your particular god is able to rescue you from this mortal condition?
    5. reject all other gods as being false, with only your god being worthy of worship and adoration?
    6. pray to your god?
    7. believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was your god who created the entire universe?
    8. have faith that your particular holy book is the only one in which the written accounts can be trusted completely, and contains the will of your god?
    9. attend regular gatherings arranged and led by experts of your particular belief system?
    10. think it's possible to know exactly what your god's purpose is for your life, even though you cannot prove he exists?
    11. value having a "strong faith" above what can be learned from science and empirical observation and utilising logic and reason? (Before you insist "no" to this one, I will direct your attention back to "Jesus LITERALLY rose from the dead", then apply that to what science, empirical observation, logic, and reason have to say about the probability of that being possible, and then answer this question.)


    If you answered yes to the majority of these questions, I hate to break it to you, Sparky, but you follow a religion.

  8. #48
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    You don't understand that being a Christian isn't based on the Bible.
    That is completely illogical. The very name means one who follows the messiah. The claim is that that was Jesus, whose teachings are chronicled in a series of books collectively (and inappropriately) labeled as the "New Testament." Without that collection of books, or their contents, you would not have anything to go on.
    Thanks from Czernobog

  9. #49
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    All other religions (most) say that a man can reach a higher state by doing certain things whereas G-d says there is nothing we can ever do to please HIM.
    Judaism has nothing to do with "pleasing G-d," either. That implies an incompleteness on G-d's part, and that does not make sense. However, the things you do define the relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    That is why He took our sin upon Himself because only in that way could we ever be worthy.
    That makes absolutely no sense. Free will necessarily means each person is responsible for his own sins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spookycolt View Post
    So you going off about Jesus made this claim or didn't is irrelevant to us Christians because its pointless.
    No, it is not. Jesus is the focus of your religion, by definition.

  10. #50
    Galactic Ruler Spookycolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Judaism has nothing to do with "pleasing G-d," either. That implies an incompleteness on G-d's part, and that does not make sense. However, the things you do define the relationship.


    That makes absolutely no sense. Free will necessarily means each person is responsible for his own sins.


    No, it is not. Jesus is the focus of your religion, by definition.
    I did say that technically it is a religion but I did point out a major difference.

    Christianity doesn't focus on works.

    Will Judaists (is that a word) get to Heaven without doing any of the "works" they are required to do?

    Christians will.

    Although granted, that is a bit of a grey area.

    So technically it is because we do believe in a God but in practicality it is nothing like a religion.

    Not when you break it down.

    To help the atheists out here you could call it the lazy man's religion.

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