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Thread: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

  1. #41
    Veteran Member cpicturetaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
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    That was the funniest damn thing. When it first came out, I thought it was a JOKE. I was stunned to find out it was true.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member cpicturetaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    First, most Muslims do not insist that women cover. It's not a requirement in the Qu'ran, just a way of showing piety. The Prophet's wife and sister covered, and they are held up as examples, but few Muslim countries enforce covering as a matter of law. And for those countries, I refer you to my first post--neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia puts liberty or freedom of individual action very high on its list of social or political priorities.

    Sikhs are required to wear a metal bracelet on the wrist of their working hand, to not cut their hair, to carry at least a ceremonial blade, and to have a special comb (as well as special underwear). But there's no law anywhere requiring it.

    So are you objecting the cultural customs of people different from yourself (which is intolerant) or are you suggesting there are nations that value individual liberty who require anyone to adopt those customs?
    I see women in muslim garb down here in FLORIDA in summer and I just wanna ask, "ARE YOU SURE IT IS YOUR CHOICE?"

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    I see women in muslim garb down here in FLORIDA in summer and I just wanna ask, "ARE YOU SURE IT IS YOUR CHOICE?"
    And they wear all black in the Arabian desert. But we're talking about using the power of the state to force people to either wear or not wear something. That's immoral, no matter what our Bishop suggests or how he insultingly suggests it.

  4. #44
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Heh??
    A question is not a good answer to a question.

    Did you want to say anything?

    Regards
    DL

  5. #45
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    And they wear all black in the Arabian desert. But we're talking about using the power of the state to force people to either wear or not wear something. That's immoral, no matter what our Bishop suggests or how he insultingly suggests it.
    ???

    I agree.

    Regards
    DL

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    ???

    I agree.

    Regards
    DL
    Great. You should also agree that's it's wrong for a state to PREVENT women from voluntarily wearing whatever garb they believe is appropriate for them. That's what you suggested you wanted and that's what I've argued against.
    Thanks from Panzareta

  7. #47
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Great. You should also agree that's it's wrong for a state to PREVENT women from voluntarily wearing whatever garb they believe is appropriate for them. That's what you suggested you wanted and that's what I've argued against.
    I do not agree as the state has a role to play. Religions do not.

    That is why most free states presently controls dress codes.

    No sign of outright and real slavery should be allowed in non-slave holding nations.

    You are promoting slavery. Stop it.

    Regards
    DL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    I do not agree as the state has a role to play. Religions do not.

    That is why most free states presently controls dress codes.

    No sign of outright and real slavery should be allowed in non-slave holding nations.

    You are promoting slavery. Stop it.

    Regards
    DL
    This makes no sense to me. I think what you've said careens between the unclear and the untrue. The state has no role to play in the way people dress, so long as they don't violate widespread norms--like covering their naughty bits. Otherwise, "free states" recognize the need for individuals to dress as they individually please. It's you who want to prevent individuals from expressing themselves individually through their dress. Religions, at least in a free state, have no ability to compel anyone to dress any way. Religions have only moral suasion--governments have the ability to use physical force to compel desired behaviors. Your argument makes no sense.
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  9. #49
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    This makes no sense to me. I think what you've said careens between the unclear and the untrue. The state has no role to play in the way people dress, so long as they don't violate widespread norms--like covering their naughty bits. Otherwise, "free states" recognize the need for individuals to dress as they individually please. It's you who want to prevent individuals from expressing themselves individually through their dress. Religions, at least in a free state, have no ability to compel anyone to dress any way. Religions have only moral suasion--governments have the ability to use physical force to compel desired behaviors. Your argument makes no sense.
    You do not want it to.

    Thanks for agreeing that the state controls our dress codes, as they should.

    Regards
    DL

  10. #50
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasselas View Post
    Great. You should also agree that's it's wrong for a state to PREVENT women from voluntarily wearing whatever garb they believe is appropriate for them. That's what you suggested you wanted and that's what I've argued against.
    That's what I was thinking. It's wrong to force individuals to wear religious garments. It's also wrong to categorically prohibit them. There might be specific circumstances in which certain garments might be prohibited for safety/identification purposes, but barring those circumstances, let people wear what they wish.

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