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Thread: Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 Rational positions.

  1. #1001
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    No, it is not. I do not have freedom of my religion unless I have freedom from yours.


    He was breaking the law - which is apparently acceptable to you if you approve of his action.
    I thought so, You feel like you are imprisioned unless you are free from Christianity. I remember a man that was told he was breaking the law over 2000 years ago. He was put on the cross and killed for his claims. Fortunately Gods plan was for him to be resurrected for our redemption.

  2. #1002
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    There is no such thing.
    According to Jeremiah 31. 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the Lord.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”
    That happened thru Redemption by what Christ did on the cross for the sins of humanity
    Thanks from TNVolunteer73

  3. #1003
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey
    No, it is not. I do not have freedom of my religion unless I have freedom from yours.


    He was breaking the law - which is apparently acceptable to you if you approve of his action.

    Freedom from Religion is suppression of religion of another.


    Freedom of Religion is where you and I can pray, worship, Praise, our G-d without fear of offending others, Or where those that do not believe can choose not to worship, praise, or pray...

    A prayer is held in pubic by a Rabbi I will show respect and bow my head, I will pray in Christ's name, the Rabbi will pray to G-d neither of us should be offended.

    I think taking prayer and religion out of schools has done nothing but to create an environment of fear, and fear breeds hate, hate breeds harassment and even violence.

    lets say there is a school there are 4 faiths in the school Atheism, Christanity Judiism, Islam

    Why not have days where Atheist can celebrate non religious events.. Islamic Christian and Jewish Holidays can are celebrated.

    What would happen is students will learn of the different cultures of other Faiths..

    lets say an Hindu student transfers to the school, then Hindu Holidays and traditions will also be celebrated.

    That is freedom OF religion.

    Blocking the cultures and traditions is SUPPRESSION of Religion
    Thanks from aboutenough

  4. #1004
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    They would be outraged that an atheist organization would be trying to stop free exercise of religion.
    One does not have a "free exercise" right to use a government job to express or spread one's religion.

  5. #1005
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I thought so, You feel like you are imprisioned unless you are free from Christianity.
    No, you are making that up. Either that, or you have no idea what I am talking about.

  6. #1006
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    According to Jeremiah 31. 34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the L-rd,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the L-rd.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”
    That has nothing to do with my response to what you wrote. You are looking for an excuse to proselytize because you are incapable of discussing the matter intelligently.

    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    That happened thru Redemption by what Christ did on the cross for the sins of humanity.
    No, it did not. There is no universal knowledge of G-d. You are making that up in an attempt to proselytize.

    (And this also has nothing to do with my response to what you wrote.)

  7. #1007
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Freedom from Religion is suppression of religion of another.
    No, it is not. So long as the government remains completely aloof of all religion, I am free from all other religions. That is what the Establishment Clause is about. Contrary to your statement, the government endorsement of any one religion constitutes the suppression of other religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Freedom of Religion is where you and I can pray, worship, Praise, our G-d without fear of offending others...
    That is not at all true. Freedom of religion permits you to do these things despite offending others by doing so.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    I think taking prayer and religion out of schools has done nothing but to create an environment of fear, and fear breeds hate, hate breeds harassment and even violence.
    Wrong. Quite to the contrary, having prayer and religion in schools created that environment. Enforcement of the Establishment Clause's injunction against government promoting a particular religion is what removed such an environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    lets say there is a school there are 4 faiths in the school Atheism, Christanity Judiism, Islam
    It is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Blocking the cultures and traditions is SUPPRESSION of Religion
    First of all, they are not "blocked." They are not appropriate for a government-run school. Second of all, nothing is being suppressed in the least. Kids are free to practice their respective religions as appropriate, within the bounds of proper behavior for a public school.

  8. #1008
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    Yes I know thousands of Christians and none of them would want a coach fired for praying with his team after the game. They would be outraged that an atheist organization would be trying to stop free exercise of religion.
    This logical fallacy is called Anonymous Authority. You are citing anonymous, unidentified people as your source. There is no way anyone on the forum can identify these "thousands of Christians." You often see this fallacy in advertising where the business says things like "everybody loves my product," while not telling anyone there is no way of fact checking that assertion. In deceptive psychology, the Anonymous Authority fallacy is called Social Referencing.

    Even if you could identify "thousands of Christians," those thousands still don't speak for all Christians. They certainly don't speak for the Christians in Americans United for Separation of Church and State. There are way more than thousands of Christians in the world, and they certainly don't all live in the Evergreen State.

    Public school coaches and any other public school employees certainly do not have the right to engage in religious activities with public school students while on the job and retaining their power. The court ruling in Engel vs. Vitale said this precisely. Since their students are captive audiences that are required by the state to be there, the Judiciary has especially strict regulations on religious activities in public schools. It is right to do so because the state makes students more prone to religious indoctrination when they are closely under the State's authority.

  9. #1009
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    Freedom from Religion is suppression of religion of another.


    Freedom of Religion is where you and I can pray, worship, Praise, our G-d without fear of offending others, Or where those that do not believe can choose not to worship, praise, or pray...

    A prayer is held in pubic by a Rabbi I will show respect and bow my head, I will pray in Christ's name, the Rabbi will pray to G-d neither of us should be offended.

    I think taking prayer and religion out of schools has done nothing but to create an environment of fear, and fear breeds hate, hate breeds harassment and even violence.

    lets say there is a school there are 4 faiths in the school Atheism, Christanity Judiism, Islam

    Why not have days where Atheist can celebrate non religious events.. Islamic Christian and Jewish Holidays can are celebrated.

    What would happen is students will learn of the different cultures of other Faiths..

    lets say an Hindu student transfers to the school, then Hindu Holidays and traditions will also be celebrated.

    That is freedom OF religion.

    Blocking the cultures and traditions is SUPPRESSION of Religion
    Freedom from religion is guaranteed freedom of religion. You cannot pray in public or engage in any other religious activity in the private sector unless you are free from a state religion.

    Atheism is not a religion in the same way bald is not a hairstyle.

    You make an Ambiguity Fallacy where you use deceptive language in order to make your argument look stronger. No one has ever removed religious activities from schools. Students are still free to pray during lunch or recess, or in between classes.As a graduate student, my Muslim classmates would pray in empty classrooms and the library literally every day of the week. One does not remove religious activities from schools by banning government administrations from participating in religious activities while on the job and retaining power. If concentrations of government power are allowed to take part in religious activities, they will suppress free religious expression in the private sector.

  10. #1010
    Veteran Member TNVolunteer73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Freedom from religion is guaranteed freedom of religion. You cannot pray in public or engage in any other religious activity in the private sector unless you are free from a state religion.

    Atheism is not a religion in the same way bald is not a hairstyle.

    You make an Ambiguity Fallacy where you use deceptive language in order to make your argument look stronger. No one has ever removed religious activities from schools. Students are still free to pray during lunch or recess, or in between classes.As a graduate student, my Muslim classmates would pray in empty classrooms and the library literally every day of the week. One does not remove religious activities from schools by banning government administrations from participating in religious activities while on the job and retaining power. If concentrations of government power are allowed to take part in religious activities, they will suppress free religious expression in the private sector.
    You cannot pray in pubic, but you can attack people of Faith in public, It sounds like Atheists are not secure in what they belief if they were people praying would not be a concern for them.

    Now explain to me why you cannot face opinions beliefs other than your own? Is it Fear, or just a lack of confidence in what your belief is founded?

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