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Thread: Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 Rational positions.

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sampson Simpson View Post
    Actually, that could fall under 4. Every person has the right to control their own body.

    Or 6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
    And what is "Good" or "Evil" can easily be reasoned out by using the 7th rational position. It's a pretty simply moral calculation - "Would I want someone to behave this way towards me?" If the answer is "No", then it is probably a pretty rational conclusion that you shouldn't behave that way towards anyone else.

    When I was posting this, that stupid bakery case kept coming to mind. Put one's self in the shoes of the gay couple. Would you want a baker to treat you the way he treated that couple? Would you want him to simply dismiss you, out of hand, like that? If the answer is "no", then it's probably pretty rational to suggest that the baker's behaviour is not quite as defensible as many are trying to make it out to be.

  2. #22
    Established Member Redwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
    2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
    3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
    4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
    5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
    6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
    7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
    8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
    9. There is no right way to live.
    10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.
    I can not argue against ANY of those points.
    I am not an Atheist. More an Agnostic but i go by Heretic.

    i DO NOT like FALSE PROFITS who seek PROFITS as they manipulate cults for causes very IMMORAL.
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  3. #23
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
    2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
    3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
    4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
    5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
    6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
    7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
    8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
    9. There is no right way to live.
    10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.

    With you on 1-4, 6-7, and 10.

    5 could use some tweaking.

  4. #24
    Veteran Member Dr.Knuckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    So in your view Killing , Murder and Stealing are all right? Its not in your ten commandments
    4, 6, 7 and 8.

    These differ from the commandments in that in these you don’t murder and steal because that would harm others, have negative consequences, make the world worse, violate their control over their body (killing), and you would be responsible and accountable to your victim if you did.

    As opposed to not murdering or stealing because God told me not to.
    Last edited by Dr.Knuckles; 12th December 2017 at 03:56 PM.
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  5. #25
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    With you on 1-4, 6-7, and 10.

    5 could use some tweaking.
    Uh...such as? What do you think needs tweaking there?

  6. #26
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Uh...such as? What do you think needs tweaking there?
    I'd add "Belief in" to the beginning.

    Bear in mind I'm one of those dreaded theists.

  7. #27
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
    2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
    3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
    4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
    5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
    6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
    7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
    8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
    9. There is no right way to live.
    10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.
    Not bad, but hardly core moral precepts. Don't steal. Don't betray your spouse. Etc.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Not bad, but hardly core moral precepts. Don't steal. Don't betray your spouse. Etc.
    Do you really think that such direct exhortations are necessary? I mean, let's consider just #7: "Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated."

    If you take the time to consider your actions through that lens, you don't think that the majority of rational people would be able to use their own brains to figure out that, since they would prefer not to be stolen from, or betrayed by your spouse, then you probably shouldn't behave that way yourself?

    You see, this, in my opinion, is part of the problem of Christianity. It seems to be based on the principle that people are stupid, venal, and incapable of making rational connections. So, if you don't specifically tell people that "Stealing is bad", then people are incapable of figuring out for themselves, that stealing is probably not an activity that is entirely healthy.
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  9. #29
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Do you really think that such direct exhortations are necessary? I mean, let's consider just #7: "Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated."

    If you take the time to consider your actions through that lens, you don't think that the majority of rational people would be able to use their own brains to figure out that, since they would prefer not to be stolen from, or betrayed by your spouse, then you probably shouldn't behave that way yourself?

    You see, this, in my opinion, is part of the problem of Christianity. It seems to be based on the principle that people are stupid, venal, and incapable of making rational connections. So, if you don't specifically tell people that "Stealing is bad", then people are incapable of figuring out for themselves, that stealing is probably not an activity that is entirely healthy.
    Meh. Every human society has rules about family and property.

  10. #30
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Meh. Every human society has rules about family and property.
    You're talking about laws. The 10 Rational Positions are not meant to be a set of laws. They are a set of proposed moral concepts. This is another problem promulgated by Christianity, and religion in general. It blurs the line between morality, and legality. Laws are not meant to be a set of personal moral precepts; laws are a set of agreed upon social rules in order to allow people to form amenable societies. While some of those laws may include reasonable moral propositions, they are not, themselves, meant to be approached as a personal moral code.
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