Members banned from this thread: Pragmatist


Page 90 of 171 FirstFirst ... 40808889909192100140 ... LastLast
Results 891 to 900 of 1703
Thanks Tree261Thanks

Thread: Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 Rational positions.

  1. #891
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Irrelevant.
    It is very relevant since the understanding of ANY ancient text is an academic exercise. It has nothing to do with the 'jewishness' of the academic.

    It is like saying that a non-american cannot know the intricacies of the american constitution better than an american.

    It is idiotic if you put it that way, no? But that is what you are suggesting with regards to your torah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Orthodox Jews most certainly do. Xians do not get to tell us what our religion really means.
    I'm not talking about what your religion means to you. I am talking about what the authors of ancient texts meant at the time of it's writing.

    Exegesis is an academic exercise. Even if you have formal training in exegesis, you still cannot claim to know more about your ancient texts than everyone else.

  2. #892
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is the plain text of Xian statement. Calling it a "mystery" does not change that.
    And when does a plain statement encompass its entire meaning, hmmmm? If it were that simple, you wouldn't need rabbis, theologians and supreme courts.

  3. #893
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It depends on who you ask. I was responding to something very specific.
    Apparently not. You use the word 'christian' specifically and generally without qualification depending on whatever suits you.

    In any case, christians aren't the only ones guilty of this.

    https://forward.com/news/205801/are-...m-vaccination/

    A prominent ultra-Orthodox rabbi has drawn criticism for calling vaccines a “hoax,” but his beliefs are not uncommon in Orthodox circles.
    “I see vaccinations as the problem,” Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky told the Baltimore Jewish Times in a story published in late August. “It’s a hoax. Even the Salk [polio] vaccine is a hoax. It’s just big business.”
    Ultra-Orthodox Jews who declined to vaccinate their children have been at the center of a handful of outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases in recent years, including one large measles outbreak in Brooklyn in 2013, another in London the same year and an earlier outbreak in Jerusalem in 2007.
    Read more: https://forward.com/news/205801/are-...m-vaccination/
    Last edited by kingrat; 11th January 2018 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #894
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    No it's not. It is a accurate description - "God, the Father; God, the Son; God, the Holy spirit", "God, in three parts". That is the very definition of a tripartite entity. You're just offended that Ian so succinctly summed up the theological perception of God in Christianity.
    LOL.

    I am offended that ian understands god's command and god's commandment as two entirely separate things and yet fails to understand the metaphysical implications of the trinity.

    If one truly wanted a succinct explanation of the trinity, one need only read john:

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

    Don't tell me you haven't come across this in your 25 years of christian study.

  5. #895
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Why then translate to a pagan language and make available to a pagan library, hmmmm?

    Clearly, the intention of 70 jewish scholars was to make the torah available for everyone's perusal -- contrary to your claims here.
    Making it available to read does not mean it is applicable to everyone, nor that G-d was speaking to everyone. Your conclusion simply does not follow. Not even Wikipedia's use of a piece of Tractate Megillah supports your conclusion, as the Mishnah that that particular Gemara is discussing has nothing to do with what you are talking about. It is simply insane for someone who has not studied the Talmud (or any portion of it) with an Orthodox rabbi to decontextualize it and use it to justify a Xian interpretation.
    Last edited by Ian Jeffrey; 12th January 2018 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #896
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Halakha is jewish law, is it not?
    Well, yes, but is simply tautological.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    And you have admitted here, time and again, that the interpretation of jewish law has changed according to rabbinic interpretation.
    No, I have not. It is applied to new situations, sure, but that is not a "change[] according to rabbinic interpretation." That is a Xian rendering as Xianity denies there was ever an oral Torah to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    The restrictions on the sabbath are excused under specific circumstances. This is a rabbinic interpretation that came only after, is it not?
    No, it is not. Sabbath restrictions have always been "excused" for pikuach nefesh - in which case, in fact, it is required to break those or any other restrictions.

  7. #897
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    The trinity is a perfect union in a single existence.
    That does not make sense. G-d is "One." Says so right there in the Torah, which precludes a trinitarian deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    They are not 'parts', rather a manifestation of the single g-d.
    That does not fit the Torah, in which G-d is One. Furthermore, one of those "manifestations" is human, and the Torah also expressly provides that G-d is not a human being.

  8. #898
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    It is very relevant since the understanding of ANY ancient text is an academic exercise. It has nothing to do with the 'jewishness' of the academic.
    Yes, it does. Xians seek to "interpret" the Tanakh in such a way as to justify the Xian belief that Jesus was the moshiach spoken of therein.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    It is like saying that a non-american cannot know the intricacies of the american constitution better than an american.
    It would more analogous to saying the Chinese cannot know the intricacies of the American Constitution better than the U.S. Supreme Court throughout its history.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    I'm not talking about what your religion means to you.
    It is not about what it means "to me." It is about what it means, according to G-d and Jewish scholars throughout the millenia.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    I am talking about what the authors of ancient texts meant at the time of it's writing.
    I do not believe you are. You are talking about what Xians and Xianity hold the Tanakh means, and framing it as an academic exercise.

  9. #899
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Apparently not. You use the word 'christian' specifically and generally without qualification depending on whatever suits you.
    You are wrong, particularly in this context. I was referring to something very specific that Michael J was talking about, which was in response to something Isalexi said about something aboutenough was saying. None of it had anything to do with how Xians generally approach health care or the healing of illnesses.

  10. #900
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,573
    Thanks
    34185

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    I am offended....
    Be offended all you wish. You simply fail to recognize your own offensiveness.
    Thanks from Czernobog

Similar Threads

  1. Rational reason to believe in God?
    By Communist Rationalist in forum Philosophy and Religion
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 26th July 2013, 09:01 PM
  2. Ask the Last Rational Man
    By JayMick in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 3rd February 2012, 04:41 PM
  3. Is there a Rational Ground for Morality?
    By coberst in forum Philosophy and Religion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10th April 2009, 12:20 AM
  4. Belief in God is rational
    By Vetruvius in forum Philosophy and Religion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 18th February 2009, 07:56 AM

Search tags for this page

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed