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Thread: Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 Rational positions.

  1. #921
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNVolunteer73 View Post
    How can you respect future Generations when you think it is exceptable to kill the next future generation in the name of convenience.?

    If your mind is open too long everything will leak out.

    Scientific method is NOT pushing a theory as Scientific Law.. Evolution would be one.
    You don't think there is a law of heredity? We are not related to our siblings, parents, grandparents and cousins?

  2. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Let's see the evidence that I ignored. Historians proved Josephus's passage about Christ a forgery many years ago. There is neither archaeological evidence of Christ's tomb nor evidence of his corpse with punctured wrists. There is no way of proving anything supernatural, and Christ's resurrection is supernatural.

    Atheists can't disprove the Holy Bible in the same way they can't disprove the Easter Bunny's existence. The story known as The Case for Christ isn't evidence of God. It is just your way of Social Referencing. The burden of proof is on Christians to prove the
    What passage is that? ARe you talking about the testimonium flavianum?

    In any case, josephus wasn't the only source for jesus' historicity.

  3. #923
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Check your arithmetic.

    Jesus began preaching around 27-29 ad.

    He died around 30-36 ad.

    Tacitus (a.d. 55-120), the greatest early Roman historian, wrote that Christus (Greek for Christ) had lived during the reign of Tiberius and “suffered under Pontius Pilate, that Jesus’ teachings had already spread to Rome; and that Christians were considered criminals and tortured in a variety of ways, including crucifixion.”10

    Suetonius (a.d. 69-130) wrote of “Chrestus” as an instigator. Most scholars believe this is a reference to Christ. Suetonius also wrote of Christians having been persecuted by Nero in a.d. 64.11

    Pliny the Younger was an imperial magistrate under Emperor Trajan. In a.d. 112, Pliny wrote to Trajan of his attempts to force Christians to renounce Christ, whom they “worshiped as a god.”

    Emperor Trajan (a.d. 56-117) wrote letters mentioning Jesus and early Christian origins.

    Several early pagan writers briefly mention Jesus or Christians prior to the end of the second century. These include Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Serapion and Lucian of Samosate.13 Thallus’ remarks about Jesus were written in a.d. 52, about twenty years after Christ.

    How is it a full century, hmmm?
    In history, there are primary and secondary sources. The former are sources that were produced at the time. The latter are scholarly works that researchers produced using primary sources. Those works you cited are secondary sources. What primary sources did they use?

    Where is the archaeological evidence for Christ's tomb? Where is his body with punctured wrists?

  4. #924
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    What passage is that? ARe you talking about the testimonium flavianum?

    In any case, josephus wasn't the only source for jesus' historicity.
    Yes, the Testimonium Flavianum.

    It is possible Christ was a real person, but the lack of archaelogical evidence for his tomb makes me dubious of that.
    Last edited by Michael J; 13th January 2018 at 08:25 AM.

  5. #925
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutenough View Post
    I havenít been to the Moon, so to me its not real. You are just going by pictures and rocks provided by NASA. You tell me the Bible canít prove itself, use the same logic with NASA.
    Look up in the sky and you will see the moon is real. Read some science books about the Moon.

    There is no evidence that the pictures and footage of the moon were forged.

  6. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Yes, the Testimonium Flavianum.

    It is possible Christ was a real person, but the lack of archaelogical evidence for his tomb makes me dubious of that.
    But that is not the only mention of jesus in antiquities of the jews.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/on...esus-a-forgery

    In his historical work Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus writes that the Roman procurator of Judea died suddenly in A.D. 62. During a three month interregnum period, Annas the younger, son of Annas who is mentioned in Luke 3:2, John 18:3, and Acts 4:6, is appointed high priest and orders the stoning of lawbreakers:

    [H]e convened a judicial session of the Sanhedrin and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ—James by name—and some others, whom he charged with breaking the law and handed them over to be stoned to death. (Josephus, Antiquities, book 20)

    This James was probably James the Just, whom St. Paul describes as “James, the brother of the Lord” (Gal.1:19). An overwhelming majority of scholars believe that this passage is authentic, but there is another mention of Jesus in Antiquities known as the Testimonium Flavianum that many are divided on:

    Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Antiquities, Book 18)

    Granted that testimonium was forged, is it your contention that the entire 'antiquities' was forged as well?

  7. #927
    Veteran Member Michael J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    But that is not the only mention of jesus in antiquities of the jews.

    https://www.catholic.com/magazine/on...esus-a-forgery

    In his historical work Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus writes that the Roman procurator of Judea died suddenly in A.D. 62. During a three month interregnum period, Annas the younger, son of Annas who is mentioned in Luke 3:2, John 18:3, and Acts 4:6, is appointed high priest and orders the stoning of lawbreakers:

    [H]e convened a judicial session of the Sanhedrin and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ—James by name—and some others, whom he charged with breaking the law and handed them over to be stoned to death. (Josephus, Antiquities, book 20)

    This James was probably James the Just, whom St. Paul describes as “James, the brother of the Lord” (Gal.1:19). An overwhelming majority of scholars believe that this passage is authentic, but there is another mention of Jesus in Antiquities known as the Testimonium Flavianum that many are divided on:

    Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Antiquities, Book 18)

    Granted that testimonium was forged, is it your contention that the entire 'antiquities' was forged as well?
    The entire antiquities, no.

  8. #928
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Let's see the evidence that I ignored. Historians proved Josephus's passage about Christ a forgery many years ago. There is neither archaeological evidence of Christ's tomb nor evidence of his corpse with punctured wrists. There is no way of proving anything supernatural, and Christ's resurrection is supernatural.

    Atheists can't disprove the Holy Bible in the same way they can't disprove the Easter Bunny's existence. The story known as The Case for Christ isn't evidence of God. It is just your way of Social Referencing. The burden of proof is on Christians to prove the Holy Bible.
    The Bible proves itself because there is 66 different books written over a couple thousand years by mostly different people . If you even cracked one book and started investigating this you would see this, but you decided the Bible canít be used as evidence because you are afraid of what you will find.

  9. #929
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Premise: Ian says God can't be proven.
    ----
    Conclusion: Ian says God doesn't exist.

    You make the same Non sequiturs.

    You don't understand what proofs and beliefs are. It is the systemic error in your arguments.

    You also continue to make the same Appeal to Faith fallacies where you think you can prove something by believing it. Objective reality doesn't care what you believe.
    Ian believes in God without proof and I believe God because of his revelation to me, which is proof to me.

  10. #930
    Veteran Member aboutenough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael J View Post
    Look up in the sky and you will see the moon is real. Read some science books about the Moon.

    There is no evidence that the pictures and footage of the moon were forged.
    No proof of the Bible being forged either, but you won’t investigate it.

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