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Thread: Can A Person Be Jewish & Not Know It?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Circumcision is indeed mentioned in the Torah. The detailed laws are to be found in the Talmud. The latter, while not written down until 1,600-odd years ago, reflects an oral tradition going back another 1,800-odd years before that to the same time as the written Torah.
    The excruciating, traumatizing, life and health threatening, non consensual mutilation of an 8 day old boy babe was not written in the first Torah - maybe they have lost it?

    The oldest Torah is 800 years old ---- earlier, unwritten words before we could record them are no evidence --- I do know that Orthodox Jews were around before they crafted Christianity 'cos the god-man Christ made fun of them - but for the rest - a mish mash of old philosophies - stolen for a dogma.

    You should read some of the newer Israeli Historians - times and beliefs, they are a changin'.

  2. #52
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegoricalfact View Post
    The first Torah does not mention baby penis mutilation on the 8th day - The oldest Torah is 800 years old ditto the Talmud, a bit younger - before that all we can guess is that it was orally related.

    We know from old writings from then that the Jews also took much from the Egyptian Hieroglyphs -'the Hermetica', didn't they all?
    Whut? No, the oldest Torah ever found is the Dead Sea Scrolls, carbon dated to at or before the birth of Christ. Assuming the rabbis agree they ARE the Torah, inasmuch as the language is not exactly the same.

    Not to mention, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics refer to Jewish slaves. There is actual archeological proof of the Passover and the Exodus, etc.

    It's revolting and bigoted to refer to Judaism as "baby penis mutliation". I have reported your post as such, and since this is your 1,000,000,001th violation, I hope the Mod Squad deals with you harshly.

    Edit: I am sad to see one of our precious handful of nonAmerican PHers chiking on his own rage vomit.

    I have placed you on ignore. I suggest you deal with your envy or rage or whatever prompts you to vomit hate on the internet. You seem to be seriously damaged, and fucking over others is not the healthy way to cope.

    May you find your humanity as well as your big boy panties this holiday season.
    Last edited by Madeline; 19th December 2017 at 04:19 PM.
    Thanks from EnigmaO01 and Ian Jeffrey

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    What about them?
    How dare you ask - or not know. Go and find out

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  5. #55
    The Un-Holy One The Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post


    LOL.

    Okay, here's my question. My lovely young assistant branch manager at my bank is named Mr. First Name Last Name, and his surname is a Yiddish Word, so I wished him a Happy Hannukah, and he told me no, he isn't Jewish.

    Color me *puzzled*, but whut happened in his family, do you think? Someone a few generations ago decided not to admit he was Jewish? But if so, why not also change his last name?

    I am seriously nosy, as you all know. I fully realize this is none of my business, and doesn't matter whatsoever, except if it does to him.

    Speculation, anyone?


    Majority of Russian and other ex-Soviet "Jews" are not at all religious. They are recorded as Jews based on their assumed ethnicity (because of name and such), rather than religion.

    On Russian census, the "Yevrei" ("Hebrew") is stated as your ethnic group. If you believe in Judaism, there is a separate area fir that under religious affiliation. However, again, there are many Yevrei in Russia who are not religious Iudei (Judaist). Many are atheists, or even Christians.

    Best example, Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin, a very important figure in the Orthodox Church


    His father, Anatoly Chaplin, was a well know scientist in the Soviet era, he studied radio waves and such

    He was a Yevrei by ancestry (original family surname, which got Slavicized later - Kaplan) and an atheist, or at least agnostic, by religion.

    Now, his son is one of the most radical bigwigs in the Church today, actually made to step down as head of the Church's public relations department, because he began preaching things, in that official capacity, in the name of the Church, that were a bit too crazy even for them, like that special GULag-like camps should be reestablished in the Far North, where all LGBTs should be locked away. Among other things.

    Amazing, really. The son of such a brilliant man too...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    Whut? No, the oldest Torah ever found is the Dead Sea Scrolls, carbon dates to at or before the birth of Christ. Assuming the rabbis agree they ARE the Torah, inasmuch as the language is not exactly the same.

    Not to mention, ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics refer to Jewish slaves. There is actual archeological proof of the Passover and the Exodus, etc.

    It's revolting and bigoted to refer to Judaism as "baby penis mutliation". I have reported your post as such, and since this is your 1,000,000,001th violation, I hope the Mod Squad deals with you harshly.

    I have you on ignore. If your post had not been quoted, I would not have seen it. Since I have, I suggest you deal with your envy or rage or whatever prompts you to vomit hate on the internet. You seem to be seriously damaged, and fucking over others is not the healthy way to cope.

    May you find your humanity as well as your big boy panties this holiday season.
    The Dead Sea Scrolls :- The Dead Sea Scrolls at the Gnostic Society Library


    Slavery was the norm, still is everywhere but the 'West', and there were no Jews at that time, certainly the Jews did not call them self Jew but Juden until the last few decades. Jew was invented in one of the British bible translations - There was a Roman province of Judea - so that is probably where those slaves came from.

    What is it if it is not baby penis mutilation? WTF s it then? -At 8 days old a baby boy does not have a foreskin - so they take a knife, skin up to half of the top layer ( which would form into the foreskin, the lubricator, protector, cleaner and male clitoris) of the tiny penis and tear it off. No anesthetic, but the body trauma is so great that an anesthetic helps that not. 100 babies died in America last year by this barbaric practice, one was only a day old - what sort of monster takes a knife to a baby? - God knows how many were irreparably damaged - some surgically turned into girls. The baby is not formed - such a brutality to their tiny bodies disturbs the hormonal balancing - MGM is more brutal than any form of FGM - and has no place in any Civilization in the year of 2017. Jewish mothers are turning away from it - even in Israel - and are having a hard time but they are being mothers as no mother who hands their bay over to a man with a knife is.

    I see that I have hit a nerve and that the truth hurts -------------- Israel will go and Palestine will live - the truth



    Not worthy of comment.

  7. #57
    Above the FRAY Friday13's Avatar
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    What is your opinion of the info given here, @Ian Jeffrey?

    Ask the Rabbi

    Interesting history of this in many cultures...

    Pharaonic dynasties also passed thru the maternal line, hence the practice of male Pharaohs marrying their sisters, even Cleopatra VII (who was a Ptolemy of Greek descent) was married to her brothers Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV.

    This tradition (inbreeding for 'purity"...marrying siblings or first cousins) continues thru European dynasties as the "Blood Royal", the prohibition of 'royalty' being forbidden to marry 'commoners'. All of the 'royal houses' of Europe are related. The Habsburg dynasty lost control of Spain due to this tradition, having produced Charles II of Spain who was severely disabled both physically and mentally (and impotent) and incapable of producing an heir.

    It's also why Charles, the heir to the English throne married Diana Spencer who had more 'royal blood' than he and thus continuing the 'birthright' thru his heir, William. Elizabeth and Phillip are cousins thru Victoria whose husband Albert was her first cousin. This was also true of the Tsars of Russia, Nicholas and Alexandra (Alix of Hesse) were also cousins via several different lines of European royalty, and Alexandra was a carrier of hemophilia, as was Victoria.

    Before DNA testing, "the mother would always be known" (but the father could not be proven). This also resulted in the strange practice of the 'court' observing the wedding nite coupling of kings believing that would prove that the king would necessarily be the father of the queen's children (often incorrectly) and the king's 'bastard children' would not be legitimized.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is entirely possible to be Jewish and not know it, irrespective of your faith, as TNV says. If your mother is Jewish, then you are Jewish; but he could have a mother who converted to Xianity and did not want him to know she was Jewish.

    But note also that if one's father is Jewish, but not one's mother, then one is not Jewish despite the ancestry. Thus, a Jew named "Mr. Cohen" might indeed be a Kohen (i.e., a priest, in a direct male-line descent from Moshe's brother Aharon), but if he marries a non-Jewish woman, then their son David Katz would bear the name but still not be Jewish (and would not be a Kohen even if he subsequently converted to Judaism).

    There were also forced conversions to Xianity in Spain centuries ago, and some of the families maintained certain Jewish traditions just to keep the spark alive (hence the Spanish Inquisition), and people might find out decades or more later that such-and-such tradition comes from Judaism and that they are actually Jewish despite being raised Catholic for generations.
    Last edited by Friday13; 19th December 2017 at 03:02 PM.
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  8. #58
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegoricalfact View Post
    No, no more than they can tell you if you qualify as a Muslim, shia Sunni or Yadi, or a Christian, Catholic or Proddy, or other ------------- lol what a silly noton - I mean really!

    DNA is still young - and but no it can't and never will e able to tell you your great great great or great great or great grandmother's or fathers religion or philosophy.

    How about we trace back to before the three dogmas? When we were all so called pagans - what then? or did history and life really begin around 2-3000 years ago?

    Loooooooooool Has every one lost their ability to use their thinkers?
    Modern science appears to disagree with you on this issue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

  9. #59
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegoricalfact View Post
    LOL It is a clever con to tell people they are ###### through the line of the mother - cultish - But just because those Jews who chose to believe it say that it is true, don't mean it is or that anyone else should think so.

    know ex Jews - who will tell you they are - as we all know ex all sorts. A Jew is a person who practices Judaism ---- openly or secretly.
    6,000 years ago, humans did not know of any way to be 100% certain which man had fathered a baby, so the Jews used matrilineal descent. They are hardly unique in this; other matrilineal societies exist. Arguably, every Latino nation is one such. Every latino's name is First Name Father's last name and Mother's last name, such as Selma Hayek, whose full name is much longer.

    Salma Hayek is Salma Hayek y Jiménez. She is the daughter of Sami Hayek Domínguez and Diana Jiménez Medina. The full name of actress Penélope Cruz is Penélope Cruz y Sánchez. Etc.

  10. #60
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Modern science appears to disagree with you on this issue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
    Thanks from Djinn, EnigmaO01 and Ian Jeffrey

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