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Thread: Eric the Magic Pengruin

  1. #11
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Which is the exact same set of circumstances for God - Either he exists, or he doesn't. Wow. That's...pedantic. what, exactly, is your point???? At best, all you have concluded is that God may, or may not exist, so...? What, precisely? And if your point is that you are an agnostic, I would point you back to the OP, and remind you to whom I directed the post - and it wasn't atheists, or agnostics. Just sayin...

    I believe in God. Your OP was directed to me.

    I am also a mathematician.

    And yes, as far as mathematical proofs go, God may or may not exist. We don't get better than that. But we also don't have a case where a magic penguin allows us to logically deduce that God does not exist.


    We start with a set of unprovable axioms and build from there.

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I believe in God. Your OP was directed to me.

    I am also a mathematician.

    And yes, as far as mathematical proofs go, God may or may not exist. We don't get better than that. But we also don't have a case where a magic penguin allows us to logically deduce that God does not exist.


    We start with a set of unprovable axioms and build from there.
    Soooo...you admit that you believe in God based solely on faith without evidence? Okay. Any premise that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  3. #13
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Soooo...you admit that you believe in God based solely on faith without evidence? Okay. Any premise that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
    I believe in God based on nonmathematical evidence. I cannot prove the existence of God to anyone else.



    Yes, any premise can be asserted without evidence, and any premise can be dismissed without evidence.

    And neither of those has any bearing on whether the premise was actually true.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    I believe in God based on nonmathematical evidence. I cannot prove the existence of God to anyone else.



    Yes, any premise can be asserted without evidence, and any premise can be dismissed without evidence.
    That's not what I said. I said that any premise that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The implication is that no premise that is asserted with evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Not rationally, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    And neither of those has any bearing on whether the premise was actually true.
    But, it does have bearing on whether, or not a premise is rational, and reasonable. You claim to believe in God based on "nonmathematical" evidence. However, can you claim that your belief is based on objective, verifiable evidence? I presume not, since you admit that you cannot prove the existence of God to anyone else. Then your belief is a premise asserted without evidence.

    Dismissal of a premise is dismissal of its accuracy, or, as you put it, "truth".
    Last edited by Czernobog; 11th January 2018 at 08:59 AM.

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  6. #16
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    But, it does have bearing on whether, or not a premise is rational, and reasonable. You claim to believe in God based on "nonmathematical" evidence. However, can you claim that your belief is based on objective, verifiable evidence? I presume not, since you admit that you cannot prove the existence of God to anyone else. Then your belief is a premise asserted without evidence.
    No. Your dismissal of my personal evidence does not invalidate my evidence. Century after century great minds have thought that they had the universe mostly figured out, and succeeding centuries had paradigm shifts, after which they congratulated themselves being enlightened, unlike those uninformed souls who came before. This will happen again after we are both dust.


    You have built your personal system on axioms which include the nonexistence of God.

    I have built mine on axioms which include the existence of God.



    Your system is not more valid than mine, logically speaking. Your axioms are no more objective and verifiable than mine. You have your personal reasons for thinking that your axioms are reasonable to build upon. I have my personal reasons for thinking that my axioms are reasonable to build upon.



    Your thread struck my fancy because it presented a mathematical challenge. I like those. I resolved the challenge and showed why your proposal did not result in the conclusion that you claimed it did. That was fun.

    Math is fun.
    Last edited by Amelia; 11th January 2018 at 09:14 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    God can't exist because of Eric the God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is god-eating, by definition he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, he automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten.

    So, unless you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, God doesn't exist. On the other hand, if you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, then apply that same evidence to God.

    There are only two possibilities. Either you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, or you can't. In both cases, it logically follows that God doesn't exist.

    Have fun with that one, theists.
    Mr. Czernobog,

    Exactly. Atheist are self-righteous A-holes who live in an empty, soulless world, and hope to spread their misery to others.

    Thank you for pointing that out, again.

  8. #18
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    That's not what I said. I said that any premise that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The implication is that no premise that is asserted with evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Not rationally, anyway.



    But, it does have bearing on whether, or not a premise is rational, and reasonable. You claim to believe in God based on "nonmathematical" evidence. However, can you claim that your belief is based on objective, verifiable evidence? I presume not, since you admit that you cannot prove the existence of God to anyone else. Then your belief is a premise asserted without evidence.

    Dismissal of a premise is dismissal of its accuracy, or, as you put it, "truth".

    Quite the edit you did there.

    The implication is that no premise that is asserted with evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Not rationally, anyway.

    That is irrelevant to this conversation.

    No premises were asserted here with evidence. So no premises were discarded without evidence.


    Nevertheless I will address part. Evidence doesn't have to be "objective and verifiable" to be evidence. If we required ourselves to only proceed on objective and verifiable evidence we would be paralyzed.

    Your belief that there is no God is no more based on "objective and verifiable" evidence than is my belief that there is a God. You have your reasons. I have mine. Just because my evidence doesn't admit itself to scientific testing, that doesn't mean I am unreasonable to draw the working conclusions which I have drawn.



    But all this is tangential to the OP. The OP was a math problem. I resolved it. That's all.

  9. #19
    Inside Your Heads syrenn's Avatar
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    eric eats god and poops god out. Wash rinse replete.

  10. #20
    Begin with a happy Ending Engine-Ear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    No. I did not dismiss the possibility that he existed. I drew no conclusions about whether or not Eric exists.

    There are two cases. Eric exists or he doesn't.

    If Eric exists, then he eats God, so God doesn't exist.

    If Eric does not exist, then he has no effect on whether God exists or not.




    If we can prove he exists then we are in the first case.

    If we cannot prove he exists, then we don't know which case we are in. It could be either one.
    To clarify, if Eric exists, then he eats God and God 'ceases' to exist, meaning he existed up to that point.
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