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Thread: What is evidence?

  1. #11
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    What is the evidence that consumers like something. They buy it!

    What is the evidence that the wind is blowing? You measure the effect it has on instruments.

    What is the evidence that people of faith are worthwhile contributors to a society? They serve the poor, educated the uneducated and express compassion for those in pain.

    What is the evidence that love exists? People dedicate to others and make commitments with very little evidence that they will get anything back for what they give.

    What is the evidence for the scientific value of faith?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_technology

    Evidence based on logical constructs is not the only evidence that exists.
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  2. #12
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    I suspect that it is reasonable to suggest that all religions require a person to exhibit some level of faith. With faith being defined as the belief in or acceptance of something that cannot be proven. Accordingly, the faithful, so to speak, have no desire or need for evidence. I do not think that a belief in God or some form of a higher power implies a lack of some reasonable logic or is anti-science. When one sees or understands the circumstances that had to occur and exist in order for the earth to support life and the rather intricate machine that is the human body are they merely accidents. Is it totally unreasonable and devoid of any logic to ask and consider the existence of a higher power. That such may be something other than pure accident. As science progresses, such can be viewed as eliminating the existence of a higher power, but it likewise can support the suggestion that the universe, our planet and human existence is no accident as we learn more about them. One does not need to be an atheist to accept the evolution of humans and other earthly life.
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  3. #13
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Really? You understand the question, eh?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    So tell us, what is the standing of scientific evidence in philosophical inquiries, hmmmm?
    I am not sure I understand your question. Where one asserts the existence of G-d is provable fact, then factual evidence would be quite relevant. In that case, one is making an assertion of fact rather than engaging in a philosophical inquiry.
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  4. #14
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    The rules of evidence is clear enough to everyone. What you need to ask yourself is whether proof or evidence in a particular field of inquiry may be applied to another? Most people here, including yourself, insist on asking for scientific evidence to support theological, even metaphysical statements. Which is why I often ask you -- do you even know what you are talking about?
    Except you, and other theists, keep insisting that this theological construct influenced, and continues to influence the physical world, which places it squarely in the arena of science. Since the purpose of science is to observe, measure, and understand phenomenon in the physical universe, then any time a theist claims that some entity, being, or force affects that physical universe, then observing, measuring, and understanding that effect objectively should be more than possible.

  5. #15
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Really? You understand the question, eh?

    So tell us, what is the standing of scientific evidence in philosophical inquiries, hmmmm?

    Does it make sense to you to form a moral framework based on, say, the theory of natural selection or the laws of thermodynamics?
    Claiming that the universe has a creator is not a philosophical statement. It is a statement about the foundation of the physical universe, which is a scientific claim. The physical universe is the purview of science. You want God to remain purely a philosophical construct? Then quit trying to intrude on the purview of science with your claims about God.
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  6. #16
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Ok. So, as an atheist, what do you suppose govern the space smaller than planck lengths, hmmmm? Based on heisenberg's theory, it is scientifically unknowable. Does it exist then in your atheist mind?
    I don't know. See that's the cool thing about science. We don't have to have an answer for every question. "I don't know," is a perfectly reasonable response, because "I don't know," encourages, "Let's work to find out!"

    "It's God", or "God did it" on the other hand ends the discussion. "What's that big round thing in the sky?" "God". "Oh. Well, guess we don't have to think about that any more," "What makes the rain fall?" "God" "Oh. Well, Guess that's that, then," "Why are those lights in the night sky?" "God did it," "Oh, Guess we don't have to think about that any more"

    It was only when people came along, and said, "You know what? That's a bullshit answer," that we started to explore, and find real answers. So, do we know if there is anything smaller than planck length? Nope. Guess what? 50 years ago, we didn't know anything that small exists. Who knows what more we'll know in another 50 years?

    But we won't know anything more so long as "It's God" is the acceptable answer.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    What is the evidence that consumers like something. They buy it!

    What is the evidence that the wind is blowing? You measure the effect it has on instruments.

    What is the evidence that people of faith are worthwhile contributors to a society? They serve the poor, educated the uneducated and express compassion for those in pain.

    What is the evidence that love exists? People dedicate to others and make commitments with very little evidence that they will get anything back for what they give.

    What is the evidence for the scientific value of faith?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_technology

    Evidence based on logical constructs is not the only evidence that exists.
    Nice story dude, but you didn't answer the question. What do you believe the term evidence means. What constitutes evidence, and why?

  8. #18
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWahoo View Post
    I suspect that it is reasonable to suggest that all religions require a person to exhibit some level of faith. With faith being defined as the belief in or acceptance of something that cannot be proven. Accordingly, the faithful, so to speak, have no desire or need for evidence. I do not think that a belief in God or some form of a higher power implies a lack of some reasonable logic or is anti-science. When one sees or understands the circumstances that had to occur and exist in order for the earth to support life and the rather intricate machine that is the human body are they merely accidents. Is it totally unreasonable and devoid of any logic to ask and consider the existence of a higher power. That such may be something other than pure accident. As science progresses, such can be viewed as eliminating the existence of a higher power, but it likewise can support the suggestion that the universe, our planet and human existence is no accident as we learn more about them. One does not need to be an atheist to accept the evolution of humans and other earthly life.
    And yet a vast majority of them insist that evidence to support their faith exists. Which leads back to the question, what precisely do theists understand the word "evidence' to mean. Interestingly, not a single theist seems to want to answer the question. I can only assume that, either Ian is right, and they don't really know the answer, or, they do know what evidence means, and don't want to admit that they are well aware that what they are calling "evidence" isn't.

  9. #19
    We choose both. Amelia's Avatar
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    Not everything which is knowable is transferrable from one human brain to another.

    There are things which have been witnessed and sometimes even recorded but which science currently has no explanation for.

    The explanation could one day be discovered by science ... and it might not.

    Science postulates many more dimensions than the four we are consciously aware of. Those dimensions might explain things such as precognition. And those dimensions might also be where God lives. We could be Flatland residents living in a cross-section of some other being's more filled-out universe.

    You don't know. I don't know. I just know that I've experienced things which are not currently scientifically explainable and which, taken in the context of my other experiences, tell me that belief in God is right for me.



    I don't need your approval. I don't need you to share my experience. It is my experience. I know what I know.

  10. #20
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Not everything which is knowable is transferrable from one human brain to another.
    How can you know something like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    There are things which have been witnessed and sometimes even recorded but which science currently has no explanation for.
    That does not justify any explanation that can simply be made up. That is the fallacy of the argument from ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    Science postulates many more dimensions than the four we are consciously aware of. Those dimensions might explain things such as precognition.
    How? That does not make sense. Or are you talking about the postulate that there are other universes? But even if you are, how could they possibly explain - or even verify the existence of - precognition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    And those dimensions might also be where G-d lives.
    Well, G-d would "live" everywhere and everywhen. But that is not a scientific question.
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