Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 71
Thanks Tree7Thanks

Thread: Is God competent or incompetent?

  1. #31
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Jews used the Tanakh and the oral Torah as sources. The oral Torah was eventually written down to prevent its loss. It is still studied today, as it always has been.
    You are describing a fairy tale that has no basis in facts and logic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis

    The documentary hypothesis (DH) is one of three models used to explain the origins and composition of the first five books of the Bible,[Note 1] called collectively the Torah or Pentateuch. The other two theories are the supplementary hypothesis and the fragmentary hypothesis.[1][2] All three agree that the Torah is not a unified work from a single author (traditionally Moses) but is made up of sources combined over many centuries by many hands. They differ on the nature of these sources and how they were combined. According to the documentary hypothesis there were four sources, each originally a separate and independent book (a "document"), joined together at various points in time by a series of editors ("redactors").[3] Fragmentary hypotheses see the Torah as a collection of small fragments, and supplementary hypotheses as a single core document supplemented by fragments taken from many sources.[4]

    A version of the documentary hypothesis, frequently identified with the German scholar Julius Wellhausen, was almost universally accepted for most of the 20th century, but the consensus has now collapsed.[5] As a result, there has been a revival of interest in fragmentary and supplementary approaches, frequently in combination with each other and with a documentary model, making it difficult to classify contemporary theories as strictly one or another.[6] Modern scholars increasingly see the completed Torah as a product of the time of the Achaemenid Empire (probably 450–350 BCE), although some would place its production in the Hellenistic period (333–164 BCE) or even the Hasmonean dynasty (140–37 BCE).[7] Of its constituent sources, Deuteronomy is generally dated between the 7th and 5th centuries;[8] there is much discussion of the unity, extent, nature, and date of the Priestly material.[9] Deuteronomy continues to be seen as having had a history separate from the first four books, and there is a growing recognition that Genesis developed apart from the Exodus stories until joined to it by the Priestly writer.[10]

  2. #32
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,372
    Thanks
    34040

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    You are describing a fairy tale that has no basis in facts and logic.
    You are looking to justify a Catholic interpretation of Judaism and Jewish scriptures.

  3. #33
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,087
    Thanks
    172

    From
    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Considerably less arrogant than Xians "interpreting" Jewish scriptures to justify asserting Jesus was the moshiach.
    Why do Jews not speak out more (loudly and assertively) against the Catholics and Christians who have usurped (not the best word) your Jewish Rabbi Jesus and your religion and allowed Christians to make a mess of the better Jewish beginnings and ideology?

    Regards
    DL

  4. #34
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,087
    Thanks
    172

    From
    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Sorry but you are now moving more in theology rather than textual criticism.



    Got what right? The translation of jewish ancient scripture?

    The translation of the christian bible today makes use of the masoretic text as well. In any case, the primary source of christian theology comes from the new testament, so there really is no right and wrong as far as theology is concerned.



    What about the fall of man in the genesis story?
    That is what I am talking about.

    That is why I asked you ---

    "Do you see anything of a fall in man becoming as God and gaining a moral sense, which is the end game of the myth of Eden?"

    Compare the Christian thinking to the Jewish thinking and tell us if Eden was our fall or our elevation.

    The Original Meaning Of Original Sin The Dish

    "Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants".

    Regards
    DL

  5. #35
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    66,372
    Thanks
    34040

    From
    Vulcan, down the street from Darth Vader
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Why do Jews not speak out more (loudly and assertively) against the Catholics and Christians who have usurped (not the best word) your Jewish Rabbi Jesus and your religion and allowed Christians to make a mess of the better Jewish beginnings and ideology?
    Judaism does not require everyone to be Jewish. Non-Jews are only obligated to the 7 Noachide Laws. As such, while Xianity has sought converts for most of its existence, Judaism rarely did so.

    As far as Jesus is concerned, he has no status in Judaism, not even as a rabbi.

  6. #36
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    You are looking to justify a Catholic interpretation of Judaism and Jewish scriptures.
    I am not aware that I am.

    You, on the other hand, are making claims about jewish scripture contrary to biblical scholarship.

  7. #37
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    That is what I am talking about.

    That is why I asked you ---

    "Do you see anything of a fall in man becoming as God and gaining a moral sense, which is the end game of the myth of Eden?"

    Compare the Christian thinking to the Jewish thinking and tell us if Eden was our fall or our elevation.

    The Original Meaning Of Original Sin The Dish

    "Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants".

    Regards
    DL
    Sorry but 'mankind being as god' is a gnostic idea -- incompatible to catholicism.

    As for the fall of man, it is seen as the cause of man's privation from the source of good (which is the creator). The end game, of course, is salvation, which was effected at the crucifixion.

    As for 'moral sense', the very definition of evil is the above-mentioned privation and the contemplated salvation here is its opposite.

  8. #38
    Established Member
    Joined
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    7,337
    Thanks
    323

    From
    Irrelevant
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Judaism does not require everyone to be Jewish. Non-Jews are only obligated to the 7 Noachide Laws. As such, while Xianity has sought converts for most of its existence, Judaism rarely did so.

    As far as Jesus is concerned, he has no status in Judaism, not even as a rabbi.
    Again, your opinion is not supported by facts.

    CHRISTIANITY IN ITS RELATION TO JUDAISM - JewishEncyclopedia.com

    Medieval Jewish Views of Christianity.

    Yet, while neither Augustine nor Thomas Aquinas, the chief framers of the Church dogma, nor even Luther and Calvin, the Reformers, had any tolerance for Jew or Moslem, the authorities of the Synagogue accorded to Christianity and Islam a high providential mission in human history....

    Grander still is the view of Christianity taken by Judah ha-Levi in the "Cuzari." After having rejected as incompatible with reason all the claims of the Trinity and of Christ's origin (i. 5), and remarked that both Christianity and Islam accepted the roots, but not the logical conclusions, of Israel's faith, (iv. 11)—rather amalgamating the same with pagan rites and notions—he declares (iv. 23) that both form the preparatory steps to the Messianic time which will ripen the fruit in which adherents of those faiths, too, will have a share, all the branches thus proving to be "the one tree" of Israel (Ezek. xxxvii. 17; see D. Cassel, "Das Buch Kuzari," 337). This view is shared by Maimonides, who writes in "Yad," Melakim, xi. 4: "The teachings of the Nazarene and the Ishmaelite [Mohammed] serve the divine purpose of preparing the way for the Messiah, who is sent to make the whole world perfect by worshiping God with one spirit: for they have spread the words of the Scriptures and the law of truth over the wide globe; and, whatever of errors they adhere to, they will turn toward the full truth at the arrival of the Messianic time."....

    The great rabbinical authorities, R. Gershom of Mayence (d. 1040; see "Ha-Ḥoḳer," i. 2, 45); Rashiand his school; the French Tosafists of the twelfth century ('Ab. Zarah, 2a); Solomon ben Adret of Barcelona, of the thirteenth century; Isaac b. Sheshet of the fourteenth century (Responsa No. 119); Joseph Caro (Shulḥan 'Aruk, Oraḥ Ḥayyim, 156, end; Yoreh De'ah, 148; and Ḥoshen Mishpaṭ, 266), and Moses Isserles of the sixteenth century declare that Christians are to be regarded as Proselytes of the Gate and not as idolaters, in spite of their image-worship. Still more emphatic in the recognition of Christianity, as teaching a belief in the Creator, revelation, retribution, and resurrection, is Joseph Yaabeẓ, a victim of Spanish persecution (1492), who, in his "Ma'amar ha-Aḥdut," iii., goes so far as to assert that "but for these Christian nations we might ourselves have become infirm in our faith during our long dispersion."


    Clearly, jesus, christianity and islam have standing in judaism.
    Last edited by kingrat; 23rd January 2018 at 06:53 AM.

  9. #39
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,087
    Thanks
    172

    From
    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Judaism does not require everyone to be Jewish. Non-Jews are only obligated to the 7 Noachide Laws. As such, while Xianity has sought converts for most of its existence, Judaism rarely did so.

    As far as Jesus is concerned, he has no status in Judaism, not even as a rabbi.
    Mine was not a question on converting anyone.

    It was one of Jewry allowing Judaism and it's good beginnings to be denigrated along with Jews.

    It is almost like Jews do not mind the near genocide and Inquisitions that Jews have been subjected to, --- thanks to Christianity.

    Regards
    DL

  10. #40
    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    2,087
    Thanks
    172

    From
    Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    Sorry but 'mankind being as god' is a gnostic idea -- incompatible to catholicism.
    ?? Read Gen 3 some time.

    In Gnostic Christianity, we are not like God. We are and seek above God.

    As for the fall of man, it is seen as the cause of man's privation from the source of good (which is the creator).
    Tell us what is good about a genocidal son murdering prick like Yahweh.

    The end game, of course, is salvation, which was effected at the crucifixion.
    That is faith based, not reality based and God would have to be quite the loser to have to condemn most of his creations in the first place.

    What grave sin earned you hell and God's condemnation in 6the first place?

    As for 'moral sense', the very definition of evil is the above-mentioned privation and the contemplated salvation here is its opposite.
    Again, what is evil about privation to a genocidal prick?

    Do you want to get close to pricks like Yahweh and Hitler?

    Regards
    DL

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Rep. Senator Bob Corker: Trump has "Lack of desire to be competent"
    By HadEnough2 in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 24th October 2017, 06:11 AM
  2. Trump is an incompetent baffoon...Discuss.
    By TennesseeRain in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 146
    Last Post: 16th February 2017, 04:37 AM
  3. Most Incompetent Governor in the Country?
    By HayJenn in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 10th July 2015, 11:18 AM
  4. Ex-Campaign Volunteer Declared Competent For Trial
    By toreyray in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30th October 2008, 02:25 PM
  5. Another Incompetent Bushco Boob
    By namvet69 in forum Political Discussion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 9th February 2008, 05:51 AM

Tags for this Thread


Facebook Twitter RSS Feed