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Thread: Here's my problem...

  1. #41
    This place is a Moke Blues63's Avatar
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    As a life long student of Ancient History, to me religion developed as a means for ancient peoples to try and make sense of the world around them. As we as a species accumulate knowledge, the need for religion wanes and we are currently in the midst of this transition without actually noticing it.

    I do not have the burden of proof in explaining the origin of the universe and it is not up to me to disprove the existence of a god or gods. It is simply what it is-a belief system held by many. No one can prove a god or gods exist therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe in them, and I feel that a belief in an afterlife is merely wishful thinking on the part of said religious adherents throughout history.

    Anyway, that's the way I see it even if it offends Macduff, and I won't be making a death bed conversion, for that would be hypocritical on my part.

    For the OP:

    https://youtu.be/Ehmo8sewFF8
    Last edited by Blues63; 30th January 2018 at 12:02 AM.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence

    The right, as stated in the 5th Amendment, is that "[n]o person shall ... be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."

    The "right to silence" is the fundamental right. Interestingly, in England and Wales silence may be construed against the defendant, while in Scotland (and the United States) it may not.
    No. The "fundamental" rights, as recognised by the United States, are here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundam...#United_States

    • The right to interstate travel
    • The right to parent one's children
    • Protection on the high seas from pirates
    • The right to privacy
    • The right to marriage
    • The right of Self-Defense


    The right to silence is rooted in the fundamental right of privacy - one's thoughts are private, and cannot be compelled.

  3. #43
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    People want to believe in things that can't be proven. From your ball team having a chance to do great things at the start of a season, to that person you have just committed your life to being faithful to you, to the idea that the plane is not going to crash, to the information your favorite media outlet just gave you being accurate, to the idea of a benevolent creator, to the thought that religion just can't be true because it's not logical.

    Life is a faith exercise, from start to finish.

    "Faith Manages" is a line of fiction, written by an atheist.

    I like to think that religion is just one of many faith prisms that give us insights into men's hearts, souls, synapses or tribal instincts.

    And believing in one's tribe is just one more faith exercise.

    Babylon 5: Passing Through Gethsemane

    Preaching and Pondering: Faith Manages (or how Babylon 5 wound up in the sermon)

    Last edited by kmiller1610; 30th January 2018 at 12:10 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    ... With religion. I love logic, though I don't always utilize it in my life. Religion is totally illogical to me. I simply can't have faith in the Bible. I would love to, I really would, but I can't.
    I suppose I'm from the if there is no tangible proof, no solid reference then its bullshit angle. Maybe I'm far too cynical. Plus, all the contradictions the Bible contains makes it impossible to believe for me.
    Plus, and this isn't meant as an insult, but rather an observation, many Christians are pretty ignorant. I'm not so sure I want to be among them.
    I just don't understand religion. All it is is a way to alleviate the fear of dying. No one wants to die, we all think about it, and it's scary. Religion makes that easier I guess, but in the end, doesn't deliver its promise.
    All true!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    The emphasised part is the basis of the conflict. I don't care what "someone else believes". Unfortunately, militant theists do everything they can, from proselytising, to using to the government, to acts of violence, to impose their religious beliefs on everyone. There are a couple of theistic groups I pretty much leave alone - pagans, and Jews. The reason is none of them spend any time trying to convince me I am wrong, immoral, irrational, or illogical for demanding that acceptance of the existence of a creator requires objective, verifiable evidence. They leave me alone, I leave them alone. The rest? Well, if they would like to be left alone to their personal beliefs, then they should keep their fucking beliefs personal! Stop practising bigotry in your business practices, stop using the secular government to attempt to impose your religious values on everyone else, stop engaging in acts of violence to disrupt those who do not agree with you. So long as you (general "you", not you specifically, KnotaFrayed) engage in any of these behaviour, then you have chosen to surrender your right to whine "Leave my personal beliefs alone!" because you chose not to keep your personal beliefs fucking personal!
    Everything czern says.
    Thanks from Friday13

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    As a life long student of Ancient History, to me religion developed as a means for ancient peoples to try and make sense of the world around them. As we as a species accumulate knowledge, the need for religion wanes and we are currently in the midst of this transition without actually noticing it.

    I do not have the burden of proof in explaining the origin of the universe and it is not up to me to disprove the existence of a god or gods. It is simply what it is-a belief system held by many. No one can prove a god or gods exist therefore I see absolutely no reason to believe in them, and I feel that a belief in an afterlife is merely wishful thinking on the part of said religious adherents throughout history.

    Anyway, that's the way I see it even if it offends Macduff, and I won't be making a death bed conversion, for that would be hypocritical on my part.

    For the OP:

    https://youtu.be/Ehmo8sewFF8
    So you have faith that when you die, you won't be punished for rejecting religion. Got any proof?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpicturetaker12 View Post
    Everything czern says.
    Do you think Czern keeps his personal beliefs to himself?

  8. #48
    This place is a Moke Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    People want to believe in things that can't be proven. From your ball team having a chance to do great things at the start of a season, to that person you have just committed your life to being faithful to you, to the idea that the plane is not going to crash, to the information your favorite media outlet just gave you being accurate, to the idea of a benevolent creator, to the thought that religion just can't be true because it's not logical.

    Life is a faith exercise, from start to finish.

    "Faith Manages" is a line of fiction, written by an atheist.

    I like to think that religion is just one of many faith prisms that give us insights into men's hearts, souls, synapses or tribal instincts.

    And believing in one's tribe is just one more faith exercise.

    Babylon 5: Passing Through Gethsemane

    Preaching and Pondering: Faith Manages (or how Babylon 5 wound up in the sermon)

    The examples you employed in your analogy are plausible. We can't honestly say that about a god or gods, can we?

  9. #49
    This place is a Moke Blues63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    So you have faith that when you die, you won't be punished for rejecting religion. Got any proof?
    That is a fallacious argument.

  10. #50
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    No. The "fundamental" rights, as recognised by the United States, are here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundam...#United_States

    • The right to interstate travel
    • The right to parent one's children
    • Protection on the high seas from pirates
    • The right to privacy
    • The right to marriage
    • The right of Self-Defense
    You left out quite a bit, though:

    "Those rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution are recognized as "fundamental" by the U.S. Supreme Court."

    "The Bill of Rights lists specifically enumerated rights. The Supreme Court has extended fundamental rights by recognizing several fundamental rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution, including but not limited to:

    [your list]"

    In other words, the rights you listed are fundamental rights that are not enumerated in the Constitution. Those that are enumerated are also fundamental rights, and the Wikipedia entry itself says so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    The right to silence is rooted in the fundamental right of privacy - one's thoughts are private, and cannot be compelled.
    Arguably. However, the right to silence in a criminal case - one can be compelled to give testimony in a civil case - is its own right.
    Thanks from Czernobog

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