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Thread: Here's my problem...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    That is a fallacious argument.
    Why?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues63 View Post
    The examples you employed in your analogy are plausible. We can't honestly say that about a god or gods, can we?
    If you can measure the effect something has on something else, it is a form of evidence. There is plenty of evidence that a belief in God can have a powerful, trans-formative influence on lives.

    One man's plausibility is another man's stumbling block. It's all a matter of degree.

    The logic police have faith in logic. It usually won't warm your bed or inspire your dreams or move you to take great risks, so most people have faith in things that deliver a benefit. Even in science, the ability to have inspired guesses about a path of research is often more beneficial than just running standard tests to pin down things we suspect are true.

  3. #53
    HayJenn Fan Boi knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    If you can measure the effect something has on something else, it is a form of evidence. There is plenty of evidence that a belief in God can have a powerful, trans-formative influence on lives.

    One man's plausibility is another man's stumbling block. It's all a matter of degree.

    The logic police have faith in logic. It usually won't warm your bed or inspire your dreams or move you to take great risks, so most people have faith in things that deliver a benefit. Even in science, the ability to have inspired guesses about a path of research is often more beneficial than just running standard tests to pin down things we suspect are true.
    You say belief in god, which isn't the same as there is a God...there is no power in this belief to measure. How does one measure belief? It simply can't be done. And, no real benefit can he derived from this so-called belief.
    Science is the result of testing, of exploring. There is no answer going in...you go in to find the answer. The opposite is true of religion. They have an answer that they very much want to find proof of, and basically twist the narrative around to suit their answer.
    It's all very old, very stubborn, bullshit.
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  4. #54
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    I function on one logical level though. Many people do. The Bible should also have functioned on the same level.
    You may think you do, but you must have musical preferences, like certain art, laugh at some comedy and not others, etc. None of this is logical.

    Humans usually have emotions and desires, which usually including answers to some big philosophical questions. Not everyone finds the answers via religion (I sure don't), but many do.

    None of which touches on my biggest grievance about religion, which is using it to harm people. But I didn't think your Op asked that question.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    ... With religion. I love logic, though I don't always utilize it in my life. Religion is totally illogical to me. I simply can't have faith in the Bible. I would love to, I really would, but I can't.
    I suppose I'm from the if there is no tangible proof, no solid reference then its bullshit angle. Maybe I'm far too cynical. Plus, all the contradictions the Bible contains makes it impossible to believe for me.
    Plus, and this isn't meant as an insult, but rather an observation, many Christians are pretty ignorant. I'm not so sure I want to be among them.
    I just don't understand religion. All it is is a way to alleviate the fear of dying. No one wants to die, we all think about it, and it's scary. Religion makes that easier I guess, but in the end, doesn't deliver its promise.
    Mr. Knight,

    Here's the thing. You are a bitter, angry atheist and seeing the joy that people of faith experience, it makes you even angrier and more bitter. Sadly, it is a downward spiral that most atheist experience.

  6. #56
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    So you have faith that when you die, you won't be punished for rejecting religion. Got any proof?
    Punished by whom?

  7. #57
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Why?
    It's an attempt to shift the burden of proof, and you know it. The burden of proof belongs to the affirmative argument. It is assumed I won't be "punished" after I die, unless objective evidence to the contrary can be presented. Not only are you employing a logical fallacy, but you are being wilfully ignorant, pretending that you don't already know this. Coming from someone who has demonstrated intelligence this isn't just a mistake, it is intentionally dishonest.

  8. #58
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    If you can measure the effect something has on something else, it is a form of evidence. There is plenty of evidence that a belief in God can have a powerful, trans-formative influence on lives.

    One man's plausibility is another man's stumbling block. It's all a matter of degree.

    The logic police have faith in logic. It usually won't warm your bed or inspire your dreams or move you to take great risks, so most people have faith in things that deliver a benefit. Even in science, the ability to have inspired guesses about a path of research is often more beneficial than just running standard tests to pin down things we suspect are true.
    That is only evidence that belief in God exists. Now one has ever presented measurable, verifiable evidence of God affecting the universe in any way. No one denies that the belief in God exists, only that God exists.

  9. #59
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knight View Post
    You say belief in god, which isn't the same as there is a God...there is no power in this belief to measure. How does one measure belief? It simply can't be done. And, no real benefit can he derived from this so-called belief.
    Science is the result of testing, of exploring. There is no answer going in...you go in to find the answer. The opposite is true of religion. They have an answer that they very much want to find proof of, and basically twist the narrative around to suit their answer.
    It's all very old, very stubborn, bullshit.
    Fucker. You beat me to it. LOL

  10. #60
    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    You may think you do, but you must have musical preferences, like certain art, laugh at some comedy and not others, etc. None of this is logical.

    Humans usually have emotions and desires, which usually including answers to some big philosophical questions. Not everyone finds the answers via religion (I sure don't), but many do.

    None of which touches on my biggest grievance about religion, which is using it to harm people. But I didn't think your Op asked that question.
    No one denies that we have emotions, however, people such as knight, and myself make a concerted effort to not let those emotions rule our major decisions. Now, I'm sure marriage, and love is, sooner or later, come into the conversation. I can't speak for knight, but while I love my wife, that wasn't why I married her. I took the time to logically, rationally, reasonably assess the benefits, and possible disadvantages to marrying my wife. The fact was that for nearly a decade after moving in together (a decision I similarly weighed), the disadvantages outweighed the benefits. Thus I always advised my wife that we should not marry. Only after it became more advantageous to be married than not married, did we marry.

    Again, I can't speak for anyone else, but I, personally, always try to measure my decisions by reason, not emotion.

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