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Thread: If there is no god...

  1. #11
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    We get back to the issue of a causal universe, again. Afterlife requires a "soul". Now that soul must either be natural, or supernatural. If it is supernatural, it cannot interact with the natural universe without breaking causality, and collapsing the universe as we know it. If it is natural, then it should be possible to observe, verify, and measure it. Since we have yet to do so, I will err on the side of scepticism.

    Is it impossible? No. However, I will await observable, peer-reviewed verifiable evidence before asserting the existence of such.
    We can't, as you say, assert the existence of such without evidence, but we can speculate on the possibility.
    Why would a spirit have to be supernatural, and, if it is, why couldn't the supernatural interact with the natural?

    What, exactly, does supernatural mean anyway?

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    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Senior Member NeoVsMatrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    All good questions.
    1. Maybe not just higher animals. Maybe all animals, but insects and fish seem more like machines than thinking entities. That could be wrong, though.
    2. mammals, birds, anything that can think.
    3. I have no answer for that one.
    4. From the spirit world, of course. Where is that? Could be right here on Earth. Could be in a higher dimension. Maybe in space. Spirits don't need the same support that bodies need.
    5. Why would a spirit have to cease to exist? Maybe it just keeps living.
    6. Perhaps. Maybe you were a dinosaur in another lifetime
    at 6. So that now means that you go as far as saying the spirit does not just go into an afterlife, but also comes back to earth into a different body again ? that changes the initial inquiry quite a bit.

    at 4. if they come from the spirit world, meaning they already exist pre body -occupation... why would they occupy a body to being with, if all they do is go back into the previous state of "being there" already anyways ?

    at 3. If we can't even define or determine who is a "spirit-animal, and who's not.. the whole premise you're creating is kind of.. pointless ? no ?

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    Veteran Member Czernobog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    We can't, as you say, assert the existence of such without evidence, but we can speculate on the possibility.
    Why would a spirit have to be supernatural, and, if it is, why couldn't the supernatural interact with the natural?

    What, exactly, does supernatural mean anyway?
    Supernatural - existing above/outside/separate from the natural universe. And I already explained why a supernatural entity cannot operate on a natural causal system. It creates an a-causal event, breaking the system.

  5. #15
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    at 6. So that now means that you go as far as saying the spirit does not just go into an afterlife, but also comes back to earth into a different body again ? that changes the initial inquiry quite a bit.

    at 4. if they come from the spirit world, meaning they already exist pre body -occupation... why would they occupy a body to being with, if all they do is go back into the previous state of "being there" already anyways ?

    at 3. If we can't even define or determine who is a "spirit-animal, and who's not.. the whole premise you're creating is kind of.. pointless ? no ?
    It must get pretty dull being only a spirit and not having mortal passions and experiences. Being in a body for a short time could be like a vacation, or perhaps a learning experience so that the spirit can understand what it is like to be in a physical body. That must be why the Earth was created: so there would be a place where we could be physical for a time.

    Human bodies are no doubt in great demand as there is much more opportunity for having experiences than in, say for example the body of a deer. That would explain why there are so many humans despite the rather slow way we have of reproducing, just one and occasionally two babies at a time, and taking a couple of decades to reach maturity.

  6. #16
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czernobog View Post
    Supernatural - existing above/outside/separate from the natural universe. And I already explained why a supernatural entity cannot operate on a natural causal system. It creates an a-causal event, breaking the system.
    and if spirits are simply another part of the natural universe, then they wouldn't be a problem.

  7. #17
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Maybe so. It might take several lifetimes before we get it right.

  8. #18
    Council Member Djinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Population growth makes such a system mathematically problematic.

  9. #19
    Member Robert Urbanek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It must get pretty dull being only a spirit and not having mortal passions and experiences. Being in a body for a short time could be like a vacation, or perhaps a learning experience so that the spirit can understand what it is like to be in a physical body. That must be why the Earth was created: so there would be a place where we could be physical for a time.

    Human bodies are no doubt in great demand as there is much more opportunity for having experiences than in, say for example the body of a deer. That would explain why there are so many humans despite the rather slow way we have of reproducing, just one and occasionally two babies at a time, and taking a couple of decades to reach maturity.
    If a spirit returned in a fetus and was aborted, it might be very unhappy and come back to haunt us, which is what so-called “alien abductions” are really about. The aliens are described as having fetal-like characteristics: hairless, small bodies with underdeveloped limbs and large heads.

    The similarity between the abduction aliens and fetuses was noted by Matt Graeber in the Summer 1996 issue of UFO Sightings. In the article "UFO Abductions: Nocturnal Terror," he observed, "Many female abductees are persons who have suffered the loss of a child through miscarriage or they may have terminated a pregnancy (or pregnancies) by clinical abortion."

  10. #20
    Master political analyst Dittohead not!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Urbanek View Post
    If a spirit returned in a fetus and was aborted, it might be very unhappy and come back to haunt us, which is what so-called “alien abductions” are really about. The aliens are described as having fetal-like characteristics: hairless, small bodies with underdeveloped limbs and large heads.

    The similarity between the abduction aliens and fetuses was noted by Matt Graeber in the Summer 1996 issue of UFO Sightings. In the article "UFO Abductions: Nocturnal Terror," he observed, "Many female abductees are persons who have suffered the loss of a child through miscarriage or they may have terminated a pregnancy (or pregnancies) by clinical abortion."
    That could be a real disappointment, depending, of course, on how long one must wait for a body. If I had to wait an extra hundred years or so, I might just come haunt people too.

    Come to think of it, haunting people could be a lot of fun,.

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