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Thread: Do we owe Muslims another apology?

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    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Do we owe Muslims another apology?

    Do we owe Muslims another apology?

    This link says yes.
    Je Suis Muslim: How Universal Secular Rights Protect Muslim Communities the Most - Video | Big Think

    This link says no.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

    To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJCC2XXMBo

    I do not think it is to the non-Muslim world to apologise to Muslims for the criticism we do of their un-civilized ideology.

    Should we stop judging and criticizing those institutions of religion that are leading us away from a more civilized state?

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

    Have you tested the ideology of Islam? Is it good to you?

    Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

    Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATBMebj8

    Regards
    DL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    Do we owe Muslims another apology?

    This link says yes.
    Je Suis Muslim: How Universal Secular Rights Protect Muslim Communities the Most - Video | Big Think

    This link says no.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQcSvBsU-FM

    To those who think we should try to separate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drJCC2XXMBo

    I do not think it is to the non-Muslim world to apologise to Muslims for the criticism we do of their un-civilized ideology.

    Should we stop judging and criticizing those institutions of religion that are leading us away from a more civilized state?

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

    Have you tested the ideology of Islam? Is it good to you?

    Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

    Is correcting and criticizing Islam the loving or the hateful thing to do?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMJATBMebj8

    Regards
    DL
    I have no issue with Muslims, any more than with Christians, Jews, etc. As long as they can compartmentalize their religion from their daily behavior to the extent necessary to behave in a civilized manner, I have no beef with any of them. The religious conservatives, though, Christian, Jew, and Muslim, etc., are a problem. They're focused on undoing that compartmentalization, to return their respective faiths to an earlier, more savage form. They deserve no apology. They deserve nothing but contempt.
    Last edited by Arkady; 8th May 2018 at 02:26 AM.

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    Member Gnostic Christian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I have no issue with Muslims, any more than with Christians, Jews, etc. As long as they can compartmentalize their religion from their daily behavior to the extent necessary to behaved in a civilized manner, I have no beef with any of them. The religious conservatives, though, Christian, Jew, and Muslim, etc., are a problem. They're focused on undoing that compartmentalization, to return their respective faiths to an earlier, more savage form. They deserve no apology. They deserve nothing but contempt.
    We are about on the same page, although I tend to blame all those who fly the star and crescent as they are all part of the funding used for terror. If you also check the stats in those links, you will see that many we would call moderates, are still hanging on to some far right tenets.

    All Christians and all Muslims also contribute to slow down our progress against homophobia and misogyny,, by association.

    Regards
    DL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Christian Bishop View Post
    We are about on the same page, although I tend to blame all those who fly the star and crescent as they are all part of the funding used for terror. If you also check the stats in those links, you will see that many we would call moderates, are still hanging on to some far right tenets.

    All Christians and all Muslims also contribute to slow down our progress against homophobia and misogyny,, by association.

    Regards
    DL
    I think we’d be better off with no religion, but if you fight religion directly, you generally just make it stronger. It’s like that old parable where the wind and the sun have a bet — the Wind bets he can blow a man’s jacket off, but the harder he blows, the tighter the man clings to the jacket. Then the sun smiles down on him, it warms up, and the man takes off his jacket. People need to remove the strait jacket of religion voluntarily, and the harder you push for that, the more they cling to it. So, as long as people mostly compartmentalize their religion in a way that doesn’t clearly and directly impose on others, I’m going to be cool with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I think we’d be better off with no religion, but if you fight religion directly, you generally just make it stronger. It’s like that old parable where the wind and the sun have a bet — the Wind bets he can blow a man’s jacket off, but the harder he blows, the tighter the man clings to the jacket. Then the sun smiles down on him, it warms up, and the man takes off his jacket. People need to remove the strait jacket of religion voluntarily, and the harder you push for that, the more they cling to it. So, as long as people mostly compartmentalize their religion in a way that doesn’t clearly and directly impose on others, I’m going to be cool with them.
    You'll be talking to him until you're blue in the face.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    I have no issue with Muslims, any more than with Christians, Jews, etc. As long as they can compartmentalize their religion from their daily behavior to the extent necessary to behave in a civilized manner, I have no beef with any of them. The religious conservatives, though, Christian, Jew, and Muslim, etc., are a problem. They're focused on undoing that compartmentalization, to return their respective faiths to an earlier, more savage form. They deserve no apology. They deserve nothing but contempt.
    I always like to remind people that you never see Muslims running for office based on their religious values, putting Allah back in the town square, etc.

    In America it's only Christians who seek to make the government over in their own image. That bugs me. Worship as you wish, but please leave me out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    I always like to remind people that you never see Muslims running for office based on their religious values, putting Allah back in the town square, etc.
    It is not about religion being in the "public" square, but rather being in the government square. Big difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    It is not about religion being in the "public" square, but rather being in the government square. Big difference.
    That was a favorite line of Sarah Palin, who also said this:


    Palins’s advice: “Go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant — they’re quite clear — that we would create law based on the God of the bible and the ten commandments.

    “What in hell scares people about talking about America’s foundation of faith?” Palin continued. “It is that world view that involves some people being afraid of being able to discuss our foundation, being able to discuss God in the public square, that’s the only thing I can attribute it to.”

    She's not alone in her beliefs. I hear this kind of talk all the time where I live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    I always like to remind people that you never see Muslims running for office based on their religious values, putting Allah back in the town square, etc.

    In America it's only Christians who seek to make the government over in their own image. That bugs me. Worship as you wish, but please leave me out of it.
    Christians have a tendency to think that mixing church and state can only help their religion, since they're the majority. Other religions are more cognizant of the fact that bringing down that barrier could mean their government is used to promote religious notions they deeply object to.

    Even with Christians, though, they'd do well to remember that every individual sect is a minority sect. For example, I had a very conservative Catholic relative who was gung-ho for the idea of displaying the Ten Commandments in public buildings. But she reconsidered when I asked her which ten commandments. She'd been thinking of the Catholic ten commandments, and didn't realize the protestant evangelicals who were leading that movement were planning to display a version that differed in small but theologically important ways from Catholic doctrine (e.g., the rule against graven images). Historically, little differences like that were the flash-points for deadly Catholic/Protestant violence (e.g., Protestants destroying Catholic religious art, because it broke one of their commandments). When my relative was thinking like a Chauvinistic Christian, she loved the idea of pushing her theology on non-believers by way of our shared government. But when she instead thought like a Chauvinistic Catholic, she didn't like the idea of having someone else's theology pushed on her by way of our shared government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkady View Post
    When my relative was thinking like a Chauvinistic Christian, she loved the idea of pushing her theology on non-believers by way of our shared government. But when she instead thought like a Chauvinistic Catholic, she didn't like the idea of having someone else's theology pushed on her by way of our shared government.
    At least was able to recognize it is not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak.
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