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Thread: Good Without God?

  1. #11
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    At least he spoke out...which is more than the others are doing. I also saw a group of Catholic Bishops on CNN who are fighting against child separation. There are many church organizations who are helping immigrants find their way. Don't focus it all on Jeff Sessions. He is a idiot as well as a lunatic.

    https://cwsglobal.org/our-work/refugees-and-immigrants/

    Immigration - United Church of Christ

    https://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org...ugee-services/
    I am not the one focusing on Jeff Seesions. He is just one more ignorant Evangelical.

    My disenchantment with man made Religion is not an over night thing brought on by this latest, it has always been there.

    I just decided to admit it and deal.

    My common sense that those who know me,say I have told me all along

  2. #12
    The Republican Agenda HadEnough2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Seems more and more are rejecting Religion as it exists today.

    I would like for you to share your opinions with me. A new group has formed in Northern Ohio, joining many over the world who miss the friendships they enjoyed in Churches.

    After losing friends when I decided I could no longer accept the anger and hate of those who stepped out of line if they did not believe the same way. I felt the need for new friends. A Church that had become a branch of the Republican Party.

    Can you be good without god? | Debate.org

    I often wonder if this is not the reason for Internet addictions.
    You bet you can be good without god. Done it for years.

    The question should be can Christians be Christians while supporting this disgusting excuse for a President?
    Thanks from MaryAnne and jacobfitcher

  3. #13
    RNG
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    Senior Member RNG's Avatar
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    There are now a variety of "secular churches" forming across Canada. The one in Vancouver has a weekly service where they come, meditate or have a quiet time if you prefer, rather than pray. They will sing songs chosen by members and often a person will be asked to give a talk on morals, life lessons and the like.

    It's purpose is exactly what you spoke of in the OP. It gives a sense of belonging and community but without the need to ascribe to dogma that may not fit your mental perspective on life.

    Often they will use the title "Humanist" rather than Atheist.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCProf View Post
    Religion is personal and individualized. There is no peg or hole that any of us fits into for our hearts are all different. As far as good and bad, I think it depends on what you observed while growing up. If you are raised in a nurturing, caring, compassionate, generous environment...it is the foundation of good or bad. I don't base my faith on the beliefs or behaviors of others...especially extremist beliefs. I was raised Christian, but my parents encouraged me to find my own faith and to explore what makes me happy and fulfilled. I do not belong to a specific faith or Church and attend many different faiths and Churches by invitations of like minded, compassionate friends.

    My faith opened many doors to things that are a passion to me, such as giving my time and resources. I learned how to fund raise, raise awareness toward the common good, and help people less fortunate of me. I could have done that without faith, but Churches provide the opportunities and organization. Such as the Turkey program I participate every Thanksgiving...I donate at least 500.00 to buy the food and organize the youth group to cook meals for shut ins. I only attend that particular church about 6 times a year and they call me every October to sit on the planning committee for Thanksgiving. Last week, I taught Friends and Family CPR for a local church that was offering vacation bible school to children and teens. A few years ago, I only taught one class, this year, I taught 10 classes last week. I did not receive one dime for the time spent and purchased their cards out of pocket. This is what makes ME feel good and I forget about the shit that Jeff Sessions is spewing.

    My advice, stop worrying about what other people are doing and do things that make YOU feel good and fulfilled. If you don't like the message of one Church, keep traveling until you find one that you like or feel good about. Also, there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who are truly not and there is no such thing as a perfect Christian or one without sin...same with any other religion.

    The "Fire and Brimstone" approach has turned off a lot of people and I believe those beliefs are declining rapidly because it is insulting to people who are doing the right things, such as serving society. People do not want to sit through a couple of hours only to leave feeling like a dirt bag...they want to leave feeling good.
    You are making the mistake of thinking I am just listening to other people. I have never chosen to do that. I have done Volunteer work,a Teacher in Church, in many Organizations,all the Offices , President Of many. Found out that is the one to do the work, have Organized Ice Cream Socials For Fire Departments. Provided time, money and time. Church Socials,working with Seniors,even though I was a Senior. I love organizing, worked with the Salvation Army,which I still consider the finest Charity.

    But I did those works,along with my Husband.

    I would still do those things to help people.

    But that has little to do with faith. Those are things in good person will do. And according to this latest there are billions doing the same thing.
    Thanks from RNG

  5. #15
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNG View Post
    There are now a variety of "secular churches" forming across Canada. The one in Vancouver has a weekly service where they come, meditate or have a quiet time if you prefer, rather than pray. They will sing songs chosen by members and often a person will be asked to give a talk on morals, life lessons and the like.

    It's purpose is exactly what you spoke of in the OP. It gives a sense of belonging and community but without the need to ascribe to dogma that may not fit your mental perspective on life.

    Often they will use the title "Humanist" rather than Atheist.
    I am attending one. turned out to ba a Church that is almost across the street from me. Once the old time Dogma is now being turned into a Love one another by the 2 young Pastors. There is no room for negative there.

  6. #16
    Veteran Member MaryAnne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HadEnough2 View Post
    You bet you can be good without god. Done it for years.

    The question should be can Christians be Christians while supporting this disgusting excuse for a President?
    Short answer? No,unless you are a hypocrite.
    Thanks from HadEnough2

  7. #17
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    You are making the mistake of thinking I am just listening to other people. I have never chosen to do that. I have done Volunteer work,a Teacher in Church, in many Organizations,all the Offices , President Of many. Found out that is the one to do the work, have Organized Ice Cream Socials For Fire Departments. Provided time, money and time. Church Socials,working with Seniors,even though I was a Senior. I love organizing, worked with the Salvation Army,which I still consider the finest Charity.

    But I did those works,along with my Husband.

    I would still do those things to help people.

    But that has little to do with faith. Those are things in good person will do. And according to this latest there are billions doing the same thing.
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I just pointed out that actions speak louder than words or check books. The good deeds I listed, would have never been presented to me until I attended a church that made good deeds a priority. Faith does drive some to reach out beyond their homes and do good things. Some will do it on their own...and many do nothing at all.

  8. #18
    A Blue Dog Jets Fan Jets's Avatar
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    Since itís a subjective question I can only say my life has been better since embracing my faith. I do not fault anyone for being atheists, but I refuse to fault anyone looking to move closer to God.
    Thanks from HCProf, HadEnough2 and Frecks1710

  9. #19
    New Member BigBob's Avatar
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    God was invented by humans way back when to help keep slaves in line without having to beat or kill them.
    Thanks from HadEnough2

  10. #20
    Human Bean KnotaFrayed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Seems more and more are rejecting Religion as it exists today.

    I would like for you to share your opinions with me. A new group has formed in Northern Ohio, joining many over the world who miss the friendships they enjoyed in Churches.

    After losing friends when I decided I could no longer accept the anger and hate of those who stepped out of line if they did not believe the same way. I felt the need for new friends. A Church that had become a branch of the Republican Party.

    Can you be good without god? | Debate.org

    I often wonder if this is not the reason for Internet addictions.
    Hi MaryAnne - I think like so many already have, if you have faith or belief in "God(s)", I don't believe you have to give it up, because of how some human beings are acting. I know lots of people with all kinds of beliefs and faiths in their gods and they have some grave troubles with how some others of their faith are doing as some Christians appear to be doing. Exploiting people's faith in gods, to forward personal political agendas that have nothing to do with that (any) religion, but use cloaking oneself in claims to "believe" or as "preachers" of that (any) religion, they can gain the trust of those who "have faith". This is con artistry and this is what, ironically (or astutely) the books of the Christian faith, caution the truly faithful, about.

    I don't believe one has to have any religion or have faith in any god, to be observant and recognize what "good" and being "good" is and in some ways one might see the books of the Christian faith as support or reiteration of what one might believe defines "good" and all that defines its opposite or "evil". I have not compared Christianity to other religions as to how many denominations, sects, etc. each main religious belief has, but Christianity may beat all others when it comes to identified differences in the ways people believe. That, to me, does not express a lot of unity of belief, even if there may be a main underlying thread of faith that joins them all together. Because the books of the Bible were written by mortal human beings, and there are striking consistencies, but also inconsistencies that are not as numerous as the consistencies, I am not sure how some people take the books of the Christian Bible literally. I see it more as a collection of observances of human behavior and kind of a guide (although one that presents some dire threats about disobeying) for how humans can best get along together, if only they have faith in the overall theme, which to me, is "good", yet ruined by humans that skew, morph, spin and twist it about to forward their personal bigotry and political agendas, then exploit anyone's faith in Christ or God to somehow make them believe the twisted, spun, skewed, morphed, personal bigotry, personal politics versions of the books of the bible.

    How people are not comparing, as you and others have, what the books of the bible say with how some are skewing it or looking the other way about some parts while obsessing about their cherry picked, skewed, personal, (perhaps literal-in their mind) interpretation of specific passages, away from the overall theme, seems strange to me, but for how some of us or all of us might be drawn to certain similar beliefs, even if those beliefs have a basis in some form of bigotry and building some sort of justification for it.

    I have felt and seen a slow slow progression to both sides of this issue, organized religion being used to promote political agendas with the building of justifications for bigotry (because of interpretations of some passages in the Bible) and people seeing how this is wrong and after trying to point this out or having it deepen, leaving organized religion, but still retaining their faith or belief in God or Christ. Because of their experience they don't have much faith in organized faith, but they still have faith in their god(s) and in the overall themes they find in their scripture, which they observe to match up with anything that would describe "good" in a universal way, faith in any gods, or not.

    Places of worship, regardless of the religion have historically been places of social gathering, friendship and presented a sense community, based on religion and in some sense, "humanity" as it describes the "good" or mutual respect for human existence and pursuit of happiness, within the bounds of respecting one another and differences in what brings happiness and what is needed, with regard to things like sustenance, for all humans, to survive. I believe honest people, regardless of their faith in any sort of gods or not, recognize that bigotry is not something they would define as "good", by any means, but that recognizing all people have a right to be here, just as anyone might consider their own right to be here, is something that is good, and that with that there is good in mutually respecting one another as if everyone else, were us......going back to the ethics of reciprocity, for Christians, the "Golden Rule"........ Mutual respect would cover not just having an equal right to exist, but an equal right to have one's space respected.....meaning, if you want someone to not treat you terribly, then do not treat others terribly or do things that do not respect others or one another.

    I seriously do not think one needs gods for that, but I do think it helps to teach children to recognize what's "good" as they grow to be adults, if for no other reason than preparing them for being adults and not having to go through a longer process to recognize this on their own, possibly hurting themselves or others in that process.

    Joining with other good people is obviously a good thing.....The unfortunate thing is what you have pointed out, that what were places where lessons of people helping one another or learning to help one another and all the things one would recognize in the Bible as good things, have turned into places that seem to pit people against one another. Perhaps finding people you know that have also left or are thinking about leaving based on the same disappointments and getting together in your homes from time to time, even formulating some ways to help others as a group, beyond what I imagine you already do, individually. "Church of the Blue Sky" or "Church of the Grass that Flows in the Wind"......maybe simply call your group..... "Getting Back to Our Roots" or "Oh, the Humanity".

    I have few doubts there are others like around you that have recognized the same thing and if enough grassroots groups form and draw away from organized religions that have begun to either support bigotry and the opposite of what so many see the Bible as teaching or religions that look the other way from some sinners, based on that sinner being a "champion" of their political agenda, while obsessing about the sins of others (like LGBQT and those that want to terminate their pregnancy, especially when it comes as the result of rape (the ultimate physical assault, short of killing someone)).

    I hope you are able to find them and gather them together, if for no other reason than for you all to renew your faith in humanity and the capacity of humans to do good, if not any gods you may believe in.

    Best,
    Knot
    Thanks from MaryAnne

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