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Thread: Good Without God?

  1. #31
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    Yes,it does because that is in you from the beginning. People can deaden it by constant wrong doing.
    Being born with a conscience means you can tell the difference between right and wrong. That does not mean, however, that you actually know what is right or wrong. It only means that you understand the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    As for teaching children there are people from the worst circumstances who are good,others from the highest standards are bad.
    True as far as it goes, but all that means is that children can be taught what is right and what is wrong irrespective of personal circumstances. Your statement is ultimately a non-sequitur.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaryAnne View Post
    But with the answers here it seems people can be good without G-d. Billions are.
    I was not disputing that. In fact, I said that dealing with the religious question is not related to being able to tell the difference between right and wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Consider joining the Freedom from Religion Foundation. Their newsletter frequently includes philosophical articles exploring an individuals ability to be “good” without the carrots and sticks of divine reward or retribution.

    Personally, I find it very disconcerting that so many people NEED the promises and threats of Heaven and Hell in order to manage their behavior.
    I think it is grossly unfair to reduce a person's faith to calculations regarding heaven and hell. Lots of people do good things for its own sake. In fact, doing good for the promise of heaven is inherently selfish, hence has very little moral worth.

    In any case, you do not think people should believe in some source of ultimate good? How then can we believe in equality and justice without it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBob View Post
    God was invented by humans way back when to help keep slaves in line without having to beat or kill them.
    And now, we believe that all men are created equal.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    The difference is that irreligious people consider the beginning of the universe as “unknown,” while religious people consider it “unknowable.” That’s a big difference in my book. I’m not willing to qualify anything in our universe (or elsewhere) as “unknowable.”
    You have objections to the uncertainty principle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    That has nothing to do with whether there can be good without G-d. Children need to be taught the difference between what is right and what is wrong, and that has nothing to do with the religious question.
    And what exactly, if I may ask, decides what is right and wrong?

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    Shitposting Rank 4 Missle Command Champion johnflesh's Avatar
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    People can be good without God, even religious people. However, there is nothing wrong with being good because of God either.

    I can understand a person not wanting to HAVE to believe in God to be considering "doing good" though.

    The ability to do good doesn't come from God or a church judging us, it comes from judging ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnflesh View Post
    People can be good without God, even religious people. However, there is nothing wrong with being good because of God either.

    I can understand a person not wanting to HAVE to believe in God to be considering "doing good" though.

    The ability to do good doesn't come from God or a church judging us, it comes from judging ourselves.
    My understanding of the question is whether anything good is possible without an ultimate source of good? The question is pertinent because our ideas of justice is intimately dependent on what we think is good for everyone.
    Thanks from johnflesh

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    Shitposting Rank 4 Missle Command Champion johnflesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    My understanding of the question is whether anything good is possible without an ultimate source of good? The question is pertinent because our ideas of justice is intimately dependent on what we think is good for everyone.
    Well, that certainly rules-in both a real God and a fake one made up by humans. Good had to be identified beforehand as the qualifier of ultimate good in something (a God, an act, a way of being).

    Meaning people sought this out - unnaturally, naturally?

    Interesting subject none-the-less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnflesh View Post
    Well, that certainly rules-in both a real God and a fake one made up by humans. Good had to be identified beforehand as the qualifier of ultimate good in something (a God, an act, a way of being).

    Meaning people sought this out - unnaturally, naturally?

    Interesting subject none-the-less.
    I think that being a good person already presupposes the belief of an ultimate source of good, whether it actually exists of not. The only question right now is to what do we ascribe this ultimate source of good if not god?

  10. #40
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingrat View Post
    And what exactly, if I may ask, decides what is right and wrong?
    What is the difference? There seems to be a presumption out there that one cannot have good without G-d - yet plenty of evil people claim to believe in G-d as the ultimate good. What decides for them what is right and what is wrong?

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