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Thread: American culture

  1. #41
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    There were those in the south of America and in some cases in all of America who at one point believed they were "free" to own and enslave other human beings ......
    That is a misuse of the word "freedom" in this context, which means as applied to all. In your example, some were (by their own admission) "free" and some were not; thus, freedom did not exist there. Same with regard to the discrimination example.

    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    It would seem individual freedom is not a complete concept, unless all people are equally free to pursue their individual rights, in the context of mutual respect and compromises where individual rights conflict or oppress the individual rights of others.
    Without freedom for all, there is neither a concept of "rule of law" or "individual rights," much less respect for either.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slartibartfast View Post
    Just when I hear people saying, "I'm proud to be British/American/Irish/Canadian etc..

    You have the right saying, "Make America great again" and the left want their country back. So I was just trying to clarify what America culture was/is, the criteria and why it's no longer great or what elements of it that has deviated for the left want it back?
    MAGA doesn't necessarily refer to American culture. I think the most common interpretation involves bringing jobs back and preventing illegal aliens from driving down wages. For most working Americans those two issues, which Trump championed more forcefully than any other candidate, resonated.

  3. #43
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    We’re having burgers for dinner. #Murica
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  4. #44
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    We’re having burgers for dinner. #Murica
    Lucky you. I'm probably having chicken, as I have a lot of it (relatively speaking), and a new shipment of (kosher) ground beef hadn't gotten to the store as of this morning.

    Cooked how?
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  5. #45
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    Lucky you. I'm probably having chicken, as I have a lot of it (relatively speaking), and a new shipment of (kosher) ground beef hadn't gotten to the store as of this morning.

    Cooked how?
    Grilled. These were smokehouse burgers from our local butcher. Yum!

  6. #46
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Grilled. These were smokehouse burgers from our local butcher. Yum!
    You mean someone else made them into burgers? You didn't make them yourself?
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  7. #47
    Flibbertigibbet Wonderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    You mean someone else made them into burgers? You didn't make them yourself?
    Yes.

  8. #48
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderer View Post
    Yes.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnotaFrayed View Post
    There were those in the south of America and in some cases in all of America who at one point believed they were "free" to own and enslave other human beings ......Following a war to end that, they then went on to believe they were "free" to discriminate against the descendants of many of same people their ancestors had owned and enslaved. It would seem individual freedom is not a complete concept, unless all people are equally free to pursue their individual rights, in the context of mutual respect and compromises where individual rights conflict or oppress the individual rights of others.

    It is interesting to think that slaves gained freedom at the cost of the perceived or desired freedom of others, to enslave them. That and more, would seem to indicate that all "freedoms" are not equal or that "freedom" in the minds of some, depends upon personal perspective and may, as history has shown, involve the "freedom" to enslave. The "rule of law" is only as good as the perspective of those that make the laws their society is then ruled by. Without proportionate representation or equal right to vote for representation, it would be hard to say any society as a whole is free. We've come a long way, considering it was not until 1920 that women won a right to be free to vote like other citizens. We still have a way to go with regard to equal protection of rights under the rule of law.
    The thing about slavery, and the jim crow south, is that both whites, and blacks were constrained by culture and law. Whites, particularly rich white men, had power, but that is not the same thing as freedom.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Jeffrey View Post
    I do not believe you can have the rule of law or respect for individual rights without freedom.
    Agree.

    Liberty pertains to one's ability to do whatever one wants. Freedom, on the other hand, pertains to one's ability to follow what is good for himself and others. The rule of law may only be constituted by free individuals.

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