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Thread: Orthodox Family Feels Trapped on Shabbat

  1. #41
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    Thinking about this is complicated. Places with a large % of Jewish residents put their elevators on Sabbath mode. Causing them to constantly go up and down, stopping at every floor, so that no one has to directly cause the elevator to move.

    But they are part of the decision making body that causes them to constantly run, for the express purpose of riding the elevators. That doesn't make any sense.
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  2. #42
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueneck View Post
    He creates a whole universe in seven days and has OCD about light switches? I never cease to be amazed at how little credit believers give their creators. Surely he's got bigger issues to tend to.

    And what about people on life support?
    Why can't I thank this post, gorgeous?

  3. #43
    Veteran Member Madeline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Thinking about this is complicated. Places with a large % of Jewish residents put their elevators on Sabbath mode. Causing them to constantly go up and down, stopping at every floor, so that no one has to directly cause the elevator to move.

    But they are part of the decision making body that causes them to constantly run, for the express purpose of riding the elevators. That doesn't make any sense.
    One of Judaism's biggest attractions, to me, is this hyper-intellectualism. EVERY issue is an inch wide and a mile deep.

    And, they argue! It's great.
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  4. #44
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    I call BS on the elevator scheme! Ian????? Is that logic derived from the same idea of leaving a light on continuously starting before the sabbath?

  5. #45
    Veteran Member Micro Machines Champion, Race Against Time Champion Tedminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassy View Post
    Ted you are so silly. The rule isn't about eating fish, it's avoiding meat. You can avoid meat w/o eating fish yanno.
    oh.

    guess I should've read the fine print.



    oh and in my defense I was kinda young at the time of the initiation rituals and I don't even have a copy of the membership bylaws that I was signed up for.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeline View Post
    One of Judaism's biggest attractions, to me, is this hyper-intellectualism. EVERY issue is an inch wide and a mile deep.

    And, they argue! It's great.
    Thanks from Madeline and Tedminator

  7. #47
    Moderator HCProf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrea View Post
    I thought that rule was suspended some time ago.
    Back in the day, I think Catholics used to fast on Fridays. But now it seems to have evolved into no meat on Fridays, during lent, Good Friday and Ash Wednesday.

  8. #48
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    But one of the big ones is "kindling a fire." In this modern ago, most observant Jews consider electricity as a modern form of fire. After all, electrical sparks are a sort of fire. And heating the tungsten filament of a an incandescent light bulb is considered fire.
    My understanding is that sparks are the result of a mechanical process, not a fire. However, the further justification is that in order to operate any electrical device, the on switch completes a circuit, which is akin to the final hammer blow to complete building something (https://www.ou.org/torah/halacha/the...s/melacha38/); or, turning it off, destroying something. Depending on who you ask, it is more about that than about the relationship to fire (unless, of course, your electrical device actually involves fire - say, by starting a car).

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Some Jewish people ... find clever ways around the laws.
    It is not really a "way around the laws," but merely understanding the laws thoroughly enough to act within them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn View Post
    Some configure timers in advance. And for years, "Shabbat lamps" have been available, which are left on throughout the Sabbath (you can leave existing fires burning) - but the lamp has a physical light-blocking shutter that functions as a Sabbath-friendly off-switch.
    Setting a time in advance is not a way around anything, but is completely permissible since the relevant action is not being taken on Shabbat. And, of course, the Shabbat lamp does not really have an "off" switch for Shabbat, but rather the shutter simply blocks the light so you can sleep.
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  9. #49
    Spock of Vulcan Ian Jeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    Regardless of the religion in question, making sacrifices for one's faith should be seen as a noble endeavor by the truly devout.
    Sort of. In Judaism, it is more praiseworthy to do the right thing because you are supposed to, rather than because you feel like it. After all, in the latter case, you are doing it because it makes you feel good, and that is easy. Following the rules even when you do not want to is difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by NightSwimmer View Post
    I'd suggest that anyone who feels the need to complain about the inconvenience of adhering to their religious doctrine should seriously question whether they are merely faking their religious belief.
    It need not be so extreme. People are not perfect, and can believe something sincerely without liking the things that come with it.
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by boontito View Post
    Couldn't one argue that them paying rent enables the building owners or management to provide the upkeep of the building including the installation, maintenance and programming of motion-sensitive lights?
    Well, one can argue anything, and bizarre questions come up in classes all the time. In this case, the best answer I have is "probably not," for two reasons: one, the relationship between paying rent and building maintenance is too attenuated, and after the paying of the rent is out of the individuals' control; and two, the motion-sensitive lights do not inherently violate any Jewish law, but are only problematic for Jews on Shabbat (and Jewish holidays when similar rules are in effect).
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